Hi everyone,
I was reading the invisible condition and nothing in the text speaks about Precise Senses other than sight. It looks like, per RAW, you don't see an invisible creature even if you have Echolocation or Blindsight. What have I missed?
"You can’t become observed while invisible except via special abilities or magic."
I'd call blindsight a special ability.
And page 467 says
"invisiBleA creature with the invisible condition (by way of an invisibility spell or invisibility potion, for example) is automatically undetected to any creatures relying on sight as their only precise sense. Precise senses other than sight ignore the invisible condition."
The more I read Invisibility and the more I start thinking it affects all senses. For example, Invisibility says that you are Undetected to everyone. But hearing being an Imprecise Sense, you should be Hidden to everyone, unless Invisibility also messes up with sound...
"You can’t become observed while invisible except via special abilities or magic."
I'd call blindsight a special ability.
You answered while I was answering. What do you think of my previous message? The spell should say you are Hidden to everyone, not Undetected.
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See edit to 1st post.
invisiBleA creature with the invisible condition (by way of an invisibility spell or invisibility potion, for example) is automatically undetected to any creatures relying on sight as their only precise sense. Precise senses other than sight ignore the invisible condition. -page 467
Thanks a lot, that's the part I was not finding.
I dislike when you have only a part of the rules at one place and no redirection to the main rule...
But it still raises the question of hearing. An invisible creature should not be Unobserved unless there's something messing up with hearing.
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Invisible
While invisible, you can’t be seen. You’re undetected to
everyone. Creatures can Seek to attempt to detect you; if
a creature succeeds at its Perception check against your
Stealth DC, you become hidden to that creature until
you Sneak to become undetected again. If you become
invisible while someone can already see you, you start
out hidden to the observer (instead of undetected) until
you successfully Sneak. You can’t become observed while
invisible except via special abilities or magic.
If you weren't Observed when it was cast, you are undetected at that moment. But, as soon as you do anything that would break Stealth, you would become Hidden. So if you Stride, and the enemy has Hearing, yes, you would become Hidden.
At least that's how I view it.
If you weren't Observed when it was cast, you are undetected at that moment. But, as soon as you do anything that would break Stealth, you would become Hidden. So if you Stride, and the enemy has Hearing, yes, you would become Hidden. At least that's how I view it.
And even if you are invisible and sneaky imprecise scent will mess you up, so watch out for those guard dogs...
Um...
A creature with the invisible condition (by way of an invisibility spell or invisibility potion, for example) is automatically undetected to any creatures relying on sight as their only precise sense. Precise senses other than sight ignore the invisible condition.
I could see brewing up parallel spells that foil the other precise senses the same way invisibility does to sight. I would consider them to be different spells though.
I think the confusion here was because that important point is mission from the definition of Invisible in the Conditions Appendix.
I think the confusion here was because that important point is mission from the definition of Invisible in the Conditions Appendix.
Heh. So it is. That could use a cross-reference at least.
As far as I can tell, blindsight and blindsense don't exist as special abilities/universal monster abilities in PF2. Any idea why they removed it?
Because they have been replaced with senses more specific to the individual creature.
Dragon gets scent.
Bat gets echolocation.
Ooze gets motion sense.
Fungus gets tremor sense.
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As far as I can tell, blindsight and blindsense don't exist as special abilities/universal monster abilities in PF2. Any idea why they removed it?
What is blind sight or blind sense anway?
An unexplained extra sense! It was always a cop out. It is much better when we have the special effect of the sense specified so we can understand it and GMs can make sensible rulings about it.