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[Reaction]
Trigger While you have your shield raised, you would take damage from a physical attack.You snap your shield in place to ward off a blow. Your shield prevents you from taking an amount of damage up to the shield’s Hardness. You and the shield each take any remaining damage, possibly breaking or destroying the shield.
[1 Act]
Make two unarmed Strikes. If both hit the same creature, combine their damage for the purpose of resistances and weaknesses. Apply your multiple attack penalty to the Strikes normally. As it has the flourish trait, you can use Flurry of Blows only once per turn.
The trigger from Shield Block is not "from 1 physical attack", but is instead "from A physical attack". The difference is small but there is a difference. "A" is more in line with "at least 1". In most cases, this is not relevant, since the Shield Block is a reaction and you only get 1 each round. If you are still in doubt about the difference between "a" and "one", HERE you'll find many examples.
The Flurry of Blows act is A physical attack, even if they are composed by 2 Strikes. Notice that the description of the Shield Block ability doesn't care anymore about the number of attacks, just about the damage that would be dealt.
[Reaction]
Trigger While you have your shield raised, you would take damage from a physical attack.You snap your shield in place to ward off a blow. Your shield prevents you from taking an amount of damage up to the shield’s Hardness. You and the shield each take any remaining damage, possibly breaking or destroying the shield.
[1 Act]
Make two unarmed Strikes. If both hit the same creature, combine their damage for the purpose of resistances and weaknesses. Apply your multiple attack penalty to the Strikes normally. As it has the flourish trait, you can use Flurry of Blows only once per turn.The trigger from Shield Block is not "from 1 physical attack", but is instead "from A physical attack". The difference is small but there is a difference. "A" is more in line with "at least 1". In most cases, this is not relevant, since the Shield Block is a reaction and you only get 1 each round. If you are still in doubt about the difference between "a" and "one", HERE you'll find many examples.
The Flurry of Blows act is A physical attack, even if they are composed by 2 Strikes. Notice that the description of the Shield Block ability doesn't care anymore about the number of attacks, just about the damage that would be dealt.
Actually, it's not. I was going to post something similar, but then I noticed that Flurry of Blows doesn't have the Attack Trait. Flurry of Blows is not an Attack, each Strike that makes it up is. This makes it a valid question with an unclear answer.
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The strikes the Flurry of Blows action gives do have the Attack trait as you pointed out. These are called "Subordinate Actions" and in most cases it is essentially the same as saying that Flurry of Blows is an attack, even if it is not (much like Power Attack).
If the Shield Block trigger will be activate by the use of Flurry of Blows or it's Strike is a technicality, for when you need to determine the amount of damage a creature takes, you need to follow certain steps:
[...]
When making a damage roll, you take the following steps, explained in detail below.
1.Roll the dice indicated by the weapon, unarmed attack, or spell, and apply the modifiers, bonuses, and penalties that apply to the result of the roll.
2.Determine the damage type.
3.Apply the target’s immunities, weaknesses, and resistances to the damage.
4.If any damage remains, reduce the target’s Hit Points by that amount.
If you are simply making two Strikes, and an enemy uses Shield Block, each Strike would have to follow steps 1-4, with Shield Block being triggered on step 3 (or 4, depending on the interpretation) of the first Strike only. The second strike would not be reduced unless the enemy can use more than one Reaction per turn.
However, when you are using Flurry of Blows, it specifically instructs you to add both damage rolls BEFORE applying resistances and weaknesses, so this should happen before step 3. If both the Strikes from Flurry of Blows hit, the damage is added BEFORE the Shield Block triggers and it does trigger only when you would deal damage to your enemy, not when it is the target of an attack.
Essentially, Flurry of Blows change the mentioned steps to be like Steps 1-2 for the first Strike, Steps 1-2 for the second Strike, then continue to steps 3-4. Ruling this otherwise would make Shield Block work as an exception, but unlike Flurry of Blows it does not instructs us to how.
Not so sure on this one, maybe because not a native speaker.
I'd follow the line of reasoning as per the above but to me "...combine their damage for the purpose of resistances and weaknesses." very much sounds like "only add them up for phase 3, so you don't trigger weaknesses or resistences twice", however I admit that treating them separate after phase 3 would make things even weirder, especially if you have both resistance and a shield up and possibly even multiple blocks ready.
The problem is that you can't do that. Shield Block definitively applies after Resistance/Weakness. Because you have to combine the damage for Resistance/Weakness, the only consistent way to apply Shield Block is to combine the damage for that as well, as there's no good way to separate the damage again after applying Resistance/Weakness.
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The problem is that you can't do that. Shield Block definitively applies after Resistance/Weakness.I'm sorry I don't see why...
If a normal hit comes my way ( not a flurry, twin strike, hunted shot ) and you decide to shield block... You apply resistance first before resolving shield block ?
Yes. The Trigger for Shield Block is
Trigger While you have your shield raised, you would take damage from a physical attack.
1. Roll the dice indicated by the weapon, unarmed
attack, or spell, and apply the modifiers, bonuses,
and penalties that apply to the result of the roll.
2. Determine the damage type.
3. Apply the target’s immunities, weaknesses, and
resistances to the damage.
4. If any damage remains, reduce the target’s Hit
Points by that amount.
You don't take Damage until Step 4. Resistance is Step 3.
If you are hit for 5 Fire Damage, and you have Fire Resistance 5, you wouldn't take any Damage, so Shield Block never triggers.
Let's get the numbers in here to help everyone solve this:
A creature uses flurry of blows and lands both strikes. One does 9 damage and the other does 11 damage.
The target creature has resistance 5 against the type of damage being dealt, and is shield blocking with a shield that has 5 hardness.
IF (this is as big as I could make an if) the solution is not to add 11+9 together for 20, then subtract 5 for resistance and keep the result together to subtract 5 for the hardness and apply the remaining 10 damage to the target creature and their shield, how do you determine how much damage is dealt?
First, I agree that the damage of combined attacks should also be combined when interacting with a shield. So don't lynch your ally here...
However, the other way of ruling the outcome would be that the first strike gets the resistance deducted, and one of the two (target's choice since they are the one using their reaction) gets the shield block effects.
So in the specific example and with blocking on the first strike of the flurry: The 9 damage of the first strike gets reduced by the 5 resistance, leaving 4 left. The shield blocks the remaining damage with its hardness. The second strike does not get reduced by resistance and does not get blocked by the shield (unless the target has another reaction to block with). So target takes 11 damage total and shield takes none.
The target could instead block the second hit and take 4 damage from the first hit and 6 damage from the second with that 6 also being applied to the shield. So target takes 10 damage total and shield takes 6.
In looking at the numbers there, it looks like the damage being applied to the target is about the same in either case. Only if one of the attacks can be completely reduced does it change any.
But blocking only one of the attacks saves some wear and tear on the shield. Whether that is a good or a bad thing is up to the circumstances. If you are the attacker, then you probably want to combine the damage to apply more of it to the shield. If you are the defender, then it could be better to block only one of the attacks. Though that also changes if you are facing lower damage attacks that you could block entirely if they are combined, but will end up taking some damage if they are applied separately.
Game elements nearly no one wants to use are "very bad design."
Maybe you're right, but as it is now I feel the way it is designed is counter intuitive and may work regarding the rules but regarding how combat works it is not.
here's the step :
- You raise your shield ( now because of action economy, this requires an action... Already a bad design if you ask me. If you have a shield, it should protect you all the time but this is a game so ok why not ? My character is stupid and unless I tell him to raise his shield he will not ! ).
- You get attacked, then you apply resistance instead of deciding to block it or not ? Doesn't make sense to me here's why :
- If I block the hit and my hardness is > than the damage, resistance which is based off whatever damage you receive, should not even intervene, I blocked it !
but in this game, it seems you need to "get the damage" then apply the resistance, and whatever is left then "you can shield block it"...
This is very counter intuitive relative to a real fight where, usually (maybe not in this game) if you (i will use parry word to not confuse it with shield block reaction) parry a hit with a shield, it means it's parried and you receive no damage and whatever magical resistance you had is pointless because you parried it.
Now the only "way" to make this work is to conclude that you parry it if your ac wasn't beaten.
if that is the case, then SHIELD block reaction is rather pointless because it is "included in the AC".
You're being far too literal. Knowing the damage is akin to a skilled fighter judging how effective the enemy's blow is going to be.
For example, there are several instances in DBZ where Goku takes an enemy's blast on the chin, because he knows it won't hurt him (his Resistance is high enough to absorb the Damage). Why would he bother blocking?
I'd also like to point out that the shield hardness is applied as a resistance to the damage.
Notice how Flurry states that its "damage is combined for the purposes of weakness and resistance."
I'd also like to point out that the shield hardness is applied as a resistance to the damage.
Notice how Flurry states that its "damage is combined for the purposes of weakness and resistance."
...No it isn't.
Trigger While you have your shield raised, you would take damage from a physical attack.
You snap your shield in place to ward off a blow. Your shield prevents you from taking an amount of damage up to the shield’s Hardness. You and the shield each take any remaining damage, possibly breaking or destroying the shield.
No mention of resistance at all. And just to make sure, the Item Damage section says this.
Every item has a Hardness value. Each time an item takes damage, reduce any damage the item takes by its Hardness.
While I understand making the mistake, hardness doesn't function as resistance.
You're being far too literal. Knowing the damage is akin to a skilled fighter judging how effective the enemy's blow is going to be.For example, there are several instances in DBZ where Goku takes an enemy's blast on the chin, because he knows it won't hurt him (his Resistance is high enough to absorb the Damage). Why would he bother blocking?
I don't really think of manga/anime for combat simulations but ok sure if you think that's how combat works.
I was more of the school that in a real fight you don't really know what can happen and you have a shield to "parry" , you might as well block it because that is being careful and putting chances on your side.
In a real fight you don't have Resistance to the Magical Acid Arrow being thrown at you...
I think some people are nitpicking this for no reason. Flurry of Blows clearly says that damage from both hits is added together BEFORE any resistances or other factors are applied, and THEN the remaining total goes through as damage. It's a situational advantage overriding the regular multiple hit rules.
There's no reason to overthink this. Shield Block reduces that total damage that went through to the targeted character, not the damage of only one of the two hits.
Remember the golden rule of powers in RPGs ... rules on specific powers overrides general rules.
You can also throw Double Slice on the same pile.
As for shields needing an action to raise to get that +2 AC, just think of a shield as a 'defensive weapon', just like a Main Gauche. If you want to block attacks (this is what the +2 AC represents really), you have to actively use your shield, not just have it and your arm hang limply by your side.
The whole Shield Block thing is more of an abstraction anyway, a feat that an experienced and skilled warrior can perform to trade some shield health for his own.
Oh and the whole 'do PCs know the damage before blocking' thing has been discussed already. It is, you guessed it, an abstraction too, because otherwise you'll gamble that sweet AC bonus of your shield on an attack that might smash it.
Yes, that lends to the slightly counter-intuitive result of people not blocking big hits, unless those would knock them out anyway and losing the shield is the lesser of two evils. But fun trumps realism in a game, so there.