Grapple CMDs

[tearnImale]

Does the bonus from improved/greater grapple apply to someone you have grappled who is trying to break the grapple? If you can provide a link to a primary or official post, please do!

Example:

I have a grapple CMB of +18 and roll to grapple someone with a CMD of 25. I roll a 7 and succeed.

Their turn, they try to break out. My base CMD is 24- would I add the improved and greater grapple to my CMD in this situation?

[Speaker for the Dead]

Improved grapple

It says in the feat that the +2 is added to your cmd as well as cmb

[Matthew Downie]

Quote:

You also receive a +2 bonus to your Combat Maneuver Defense whenever an opponent tries to grapple you.

They're not trying to grapple you. They're trying to break out of your grapple. So by the look of it, it doesn't apply?

Quote:

If you are grappled, you can attempt to break the grapple as a standard action by making a combat maneuver check (DC equal to your opponent’s CMD; this does not provoke an attack of opportunity) or Escape Artist check (with a DC equal to your opponent’s CMD). If you succeed, you break the grapple and can act normally. Alternatively, if you succeed, you can become the grappler, grappling the other creature (meaning that the other creature cannot freely release the grapple without making a combat maneuver check, while you can).

...except maybe if they're attempting to 'reverse the grapple'.

Previous discussion

[mardaddy]

Based on the wording "If You Are Grappled: If you are grappled, you can attempt to break the grapple as a standard action by making a combat maneuver check (DC equal to your opponent's CMD; this does not provoke an attack of opportunity) or Escape Artist check (with a DC equal to your opponent's CMD). If you succeed, you break the grapple and can act normally. Alternatively, if you succeed, you can become the grappler,"

It looks to me like the person being grappled needs to commit to whether they are breaking or becoming the grappler before the die is cast so that the correct DC is obtained.

[RAWmonger]

My personal belief is RAI, any bonuses you get to grapple CMD apply. However, RAW, you do not get bonuses to CMD or CMB unless the maneuver type is mentioned. Personally I don’t think this makes sense, since if you’re a professional grappler, you would know the moves a person makes to counter your grapple and thus your professional ability would apply to countering defensive maneuvers.

Paizo says: ”you have a set CMB or CMD and certain bonuses apply when they say they apply”

If a maneuver type isn’t mentioned in your or their combat maneuver check, you do not get the mentioned bonuses. Talk to your GM and trust they will be reasonable that certain checks apply certain bonuses

[Speaker for the Dead]

If you’re trying to break (or reverse) a grapple, the dc is equal to your opponents CMD. If your opponent has the improved grapple feat then their CMD is increased by 2 for all grapple related activities.

[Matthew Downie]

Speaker for the Dead wrote:

If you’re trying to break (or reverse) a grapple, the dc is equal to your opponents CMD. If your opponent has the improved grapple feat then their CMD is increased by 2 for all grapple related activities.

It doesn't say +2 for all grapple-related activities. It says +2 when an opponent tries to grapple you.

Improved Grapple wrote:

You also receive a +2 bonus to your Combat Maneuver Defense whenever an opponent tries to grapple you.

It's not unreasonable for a GM to apply the bonus in related situations, but the wording of the feat doesn't support it.