Will Paizo make PFS2 scenarios available for sale on Roll20?


Pathfinder Society

Grand Lodge 4/5

I noticed that Fantasy Grounds is now selling PFS2 scenarios along with the Adventure Paths. The availability of the ready to run PFS2 scenarios is something they have just started to offer. One can sync one's account with Paizo as well there. Roll20 offers some PF2 materials and an account sync with Paizo, but has yet to offer PFS2 scenarios.

Will this be coming to Roll20? I would really like to see this happen. Building scenarios takes time which can be spent running scenarios instead. The Online Region is growing and would grow even larger if we didn't have to build the scenarios. I feel like more players would take that step into online GMing if the scenarios were available on Roll20 as that is the VTT that most of the GMs in our region are using.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

That's up to Roll20. If that's something you want, I suggest you let them know directly!

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 Premier Event Coordinator aka TwilightKnight

Wouldn't it also be prudent for the Paizo sales team to reach out to them? Seems like a good revenue stream given the number of people in our community that use roll20

Grand Lodge 5/5

Bob Jonquet wrote:
Wouldn't it also be prudent for the Paizo sales team to reach out to them? Seems like a good revenue stream given the number of people in our community that use roll20

That might be helpful.

Full disclosure: I did reach out to them. I offered to set up tables. At the moment I'm pretty active and I have most scenarios fully set up. I actually enjoy setting these up in a good way for my own games and I didn't mind being the first to GM several of the scenarios on roll20 to spread them (I currently have a Thursday slot on the day after launch here).

Currently it takes me 4-5 hours to set up tables on my own with likely another 3 hours to set them up to a standard that is shareable. I actually have 2 tables set up in a way that are (as far as I can tell) up to the standard they offer with all text added - not just monsters and maps.

As a non-VA/non-VC and not affiliated with roll20 I currently pay for a subscription (to get the scenarios), I pay for roll 20 as a plus subscriber as well as for the bestiary and the compendium - as it makes adding scenarios easier.

So when I added all that up it comes to quite a sum. Getting all the Lost Omens pdfs would be great, getting access to Plaguestone on roll20 would be great as well. But paying all that AND offering a lot of my free time seems a little bit much to ask.

I can offer my time or my money - I shouldn't have to offer both.

What are the benefits:
I have seen several GMs who don't dare to GM on a VTT because they see this large burden to set up a table. It is considerably more work as preparing off-line. Especially if you only do it once.

There is a benefit of free quality control / proof reading. Transferring text and adding monsters/NPCs involves a lot of detailed reading, stripping off formatting, adding numbers. I'm proud that some of that work resulted in 1-10 being re-issued after I reported the large issues with this scenario after I ported it (it is one of the scenarios I completely ported - haven't updated it though).
I noticed a few minor bits here and there (crossbows with hand crossbow ranges, etc.) that so far I haven't fully reported as it adds some extra time as well.

Now the downsides:
The market right now isn't very large. Stunt Monkey once told me he was proud they reported 100 scenarios a month. Assuming that is across PFS1, PFS2, Starfinder and that 50% are scenarios done a second time / done by someone who doesn't want to pay (and I guess the 50% is generous) this would result in a market of 50 sales across 2 scenarios and 1 quest PFS and 2 scenarios Starfinder a month that are new and should be added.

Assuming just $1 for the one adding them, that would be $50 a month for many hours spend. This would only work if someone is doing it mainly for the fun of it. And off course giving access to pdfs (Paizo) or pro subscriptions / added material (roll20) could be slightly different as there are potentially lower cost on one side / increased benefits on the other.

This market could grow long term. PFS Roll20 numbers from the latest survey looked bleak in comparison to D&D. D&D is much better provided for on roll 20 - so part of this could be a chicken & egg problem.

In my view if you ask the sales team to reach out to roll20 because of added sales is a dead end. The market (right now) is pretty small.

On the other hand if they reach out to further the play of Pathfinder on their system and therefore getting a better foothold then this is a different story. I can see lots of benefits here. Even for non-VTT GMs there is the large benefit that online could be a good way to play a scenario without having to prepare it cold.

I actually had a least one UK GM approaching me - I GM these two new scenarios at a CON - are you willing to GM them ahead of time.

I have the time and enough text already converted in a format to get all PFS2 scenarios set up in a span of maybe 3 weeks. I'm happy to do this for nearly nothing.

But offering to set it up, paying for it and still be rejected is a turn-off. I offered it twice to roll20. Roll20 has my details - you also know how to reach me here.

Rambling over.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, France—Paris

I can see roll20 trying to make the effort to expand the PF2 content, but I don't see them doing the same thing for PFS. Outside of the strictly moral or PR thing, what would be their incentive to do it ?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I don't know enough about Roll20, but can you currently "share" a copy of a set-up table to allow someone else to use/GM it as well (without messing up your own original table)? Or does that require additional support by Roll20?

5/5 5/55/55/5

albadeon wrote:
I don't know enough about Roll20, but can you currently "share" a copy of a set-up table to allow someone else to use/GM it as well (without messing up your own original table)? Or does that require additional support by Roll20?

You can either mess up your own table, or make a copy of the table and let someone mess that up. It eats into your memmory alotment, but I don't think thats much of an issue with a paid account (which you almost need to dm a lot)

Dark Archive 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Online—VTT

albadeon wrote:
I don't know enough about Roll20, but can you currently "share" a copy of a set-up table to allow someone else to use/GM it as well (without messing up your own original table)? Or does that require additional support by Roll20?

You are able to share a copy of a table you create, using your own Roll20 drive space to copy it for someone and they can then use that without any impact on 'your' table. As an aside, you can only share tables that do not have official copies available from Roll20, so if they do move into selling Society scenarios we would not be able to share these with one another and people would be required to make their own or buy the official copy.

Since I've been quoted rather without context above I'll mention a little more, we typically report somewhere around 100 scenarios a month, give or take, to the Online Support Program. This doesn't include any scenarios GMs run themselves online and report to their own events (a very significant number), nor any that are reported for cons (another large amount), etc. I would suggest that the only people able to guesstimate the number of online games played with any remote accuracy is Paizo themselves and the figures mentioned in previous posts are very likely wildly inaccurate and misleading.

I suspect that Roll20 likely has little interest in having people outside their own company make tables they would sell as official, any such tables would still need to be thoroughly tested and checked by their own staff before they offered them for sale and the time taken to do this would, I imagine, be a significant amount compared to them just making the tables themselves with the tools they have access to. Though this is of course entirely speculation on my part.

5/5

Richard Lowe wrote:
As an aside, you can only share tables that do not have official copies available from Roll20, so if they do move into selling Society scenarios we would not be able to share these with one another and people would be required to make their own or buy the official copy.

Do you have some sort of reference to establish why this might be the case. I am a customer of Roll20, if I use my rights to create something using that service I have the right to share a copy with someone else if I want to do so.

Are you suggesting that Paizo have a right to control what I create myself on roll20?

5/5 5/55/55/5

andreww wrote:
Richard Lowe wrote:
As an aside, you can only share tables that do not have official copies available from Roll20, so if they do move into selling Society scenarios we would not be able to share these with one another and people would be required to make their own or buy the official copy.

Do you have some sort of reference to establish why this might be the case. I am a customer of Roll20, if I use my rights to create something using that service I have the right to share a copy with someone else if I want to do so.

Are you suggesting that Paizo have a right to control what I create myself on roll20?

Its a PFS rule I believe, same as not being able to share my PDF or have my pdf count as my friends copy of Knights of Golarion

5/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
andreww wrote:
Richard Lowe wrote:
As an aside, you can only share tables that do not have official copies available from Roll20, so if they do move into selling Society scenarios we would not be able to share these with one another and people would be required to make their own or buy the official copy.

Do you have some sort of reference to establish why this might be the case. I am a customer of Roll20, if I use my rights to create something using that service I have the right to share a copy with someone else if I want to do so.

Are you suggesting that Paizo have a right to control what I create myself on roll20?

Its a PFS rule I believe, same as not being able to share my PDF or have my pdf count as my friends copy of Knights of Golarion

In which case it would apply currently which it clearly doesnt.

Dark Archive 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Online—VTT

andreww wrote:


In which case it would apply currently which it clearly doesnt.

BNW is entirely correct, if there is an official Paizo/Roll20 product available for a society scenario then we are obliged to use that or to make our own table for it, sharing copies of tables that Paizo/Roll20 provides official versions of is not okay for society play.

5/5 5/55/55/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
andreww wrote:


In which case it would apply currently which it clearly doesnt.

I think it only applies to Fantasy grounds PF1 scenarios so far (the only ones i know of that has an official product)

The Exchange 5/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

I need to hunt around a bit but I know at one point sharing a copy of a PFS table was explicitly NOT allowed.

The issue wasn’t the work that went into setting up the scenario, it was the underlying art assets (maps and creature tokens) that were being shared.

Dark Archive 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Online—VTT

Kevin Willis wrote:

I need to hunt around a bit but I know at one point sharing a copy of a PFS table was explicitly NOT allowed.

The issue wasn’t the work that went into setting up the scenario, it was the underlying art assets (maps and creature tokens) that were being shared.

The Online region has permission to share virtual tabletops so long as there is not an official one available and both people have bought a legal copy of all Paizo maps/scenarios/etc used.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 Premier Event Coordinator aka TwilightKnight

Thod wrote:
In my view if you ask the sales team to reach out to roll20 because of added sales is a dead end. The market (right now) is pretty small.

True, but part of sales is also cultivating new avenues. Many/most gamers like the "official" tag to be fixed to most of their stuff. Its one of the reasons why Paizo published material sells so much better than a 3PP product assuming similar production value. Paizo could create an official relationship such that someone like you adapted the materials needed to support scenarios on the roll20 platform, and then Paizo sanctioned it as official. It would significantly improve the perception of the material by the community and help to "sell" the roll20 platform in a similar fashion to how HeroLab was boosted by being our "official" character management app for 1E. I think we would see a measurable increase in use. And if you are willing to do the development, all it would "cost" Paizo would be equivalent to a VC's incentive package plus a free roll20 sub. This could all be managed through the OPF program to avoid the issue of hiring you as an employee. Seems relatively simple to me, but I won't pretend to know all the details.

I know for someone like myself, I would not use a VTT unless I had access to a suite of tools so I didn't have to know how to create/convert content in order to GM it. If it was something I simply had to buy or subscribe to and could grab it off a menu, and be ready to run in a matter of minutes, I'm in

Grand Lodge 4/5

Ever since PFS2 came out, I have not been reporting my games under the OPF label. I know I am not the only GM doing that either. I usually run 4 to 5 sessions each month, so I'd say there are probably closer to 200 games per month being played on Roll20 and the number that are PFS2 are increasing every month.

Dark Archive 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Online—VTT

Xathos of Varisia wrote:
Ever since PFS2 came out, I have not been reporting my games under the OPF label. I know I am not the only GM doing that either. I usually run 4 to 5 sessions each month, so I'd say there are probably closer to 200 games per month being played on Roll20 and the number that are PFS2 are increasing every month.

Indeed, we don't report any PF2 under the OSP since the support for it is currently via AcP, part of the reason I mentioned that the numbers floated earlier are wildly inaccurate since there is a ton of PF2 played online. There's also multiple online groups who run on Roll20 and prefer to report through their own events, which is totally cool, a lot more than people probably realise, especially groups who play in languages other than English (though they are also welcome to use the OSP if they qualify the same as everyone).

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 Premier Event Coordinator aka TwilightKnight

Xathos of Varisia wrote:
Ever since PFS2 came out, I have not been reporting my games...

If you are referring to the official reporting tool in the OP section of the Paizo website, why not?

Dark Archive 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Online—VTT

He is not, he's referring to reporting games via the Online Support Program, which doesn't support granting any additional rewards for PF2 currently and so GMs report the games themselves.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Bob Jonquet wrote:
Xathos of Varisia wrote:
Ever since PFS2 came out, I have not been reporting my games...
If you are referring to the official reporting tool in the OP section of the Paizo website, why not?

Oh, I've definitely been reporting every session on Paizo, all 51 of them. I don't know what I will buy with all these AcP when they go live, but I'm going to be able to be a lot of it! I also want to make sure the players get their AcP as well so they too can buy what they want.

The OSP has nothing for reporting PFS2 games as StuntMonkey stated, so I just put everything I run online in the classic House of Xathos. The live games go in their appropriate locations.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

Obviously I don't know how the online system works... But Huh?

Why would the 'Online Support Program' (What ever that is) have a reward for GMs reporting through them?

I am assuming but I could be wrong, that the idea is you send your game played to the OSP who reports it on the Paizo web page under their event?

5/5

Steven Lau wrote:

Obviously I don't know how the online system works... But Huh?

Why would the 'Online Support Program' (What ever that is) have a reward for GMs reporting through them?

I am assuming but I could be wrong, that the idea is you send your game played to the OSP who reports it on the Paizo web page under their event?

OSP is the online version of the physical game reward structure. Players can win boons and GMs can gain credit towads unlocking a race boon in a similar way to what occurs through game stores.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

andreww wrote:
OSP is the online version of the physical game reward structure. Players can win boons and GMs can gain credit towads unlocking a race boon in a similar way to what occurs through game stores.

Ahh so the Regional Support Program?

Well since that is still being worked on for PF2 would it not be better for players to report through the OSP once it is implemented so they get the right amount of points what ever that is going to be?

Edit: Assuming the OSP does get Regional support once it is implemented, which granted it might not.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 Premier Event Coordinator aka TwilightKnight

I don't think there will be a need for a specific OSP for PF2 once the AcP is working. I expect online events would just be classified as either standard, premier, or premier plus. Presumably Jeese and Tonya would need to coordinate which events, if any, would qualify as premier plus. Stand-alone events would be standard and any convention would automatically be premier. They would only need to continue OSP as it relates to PF1 and SFS.

Community / Forums / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society / Will Paizo make PFS2 scenarios available for sale on Roll20? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.