Could someone give me their thoughts on my build here? I made this character 4th level. You can click on the character name or open the spoiler below. I would like to know how I could improve it without really messing with the stats, as they represent the character. Also, what direction in the future would be good with this. Is it viable for high levels do you think? Weaknesses/Strengths?
I hope the format of this is to your liking and makes it easy to read/understand. :)
Half-orc Unchained Rogue 4
STR 7
DEX 20 (+2 Racial)
CON 14
INT 13
WIS 12
CHA 12
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DEFENSES
HP: 21
Initiative: +7 (5dex+2reactionary)
Speed: 30ft
AC: 19 [4armor+0shield+5dex+0size+0NA+0Deflection+0Misc+10]
Touch: 15 Flat Footed: 14 Defensive: +3
SAVES
Fort: +6 =1+2con+2luck+1item
Ref: +12 =4+5dex+2luck+1item
Will: +5 =1+1wis+2luck+1item
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ATTACKS
BAB: +3
CMB: +1 =3BAB-2Str+0Size
CMD: 14 =3BAB-2Str+3Dex+0Size+10
Melee
Masterwork Dagger | +9 | 19-20x2
P/S | 10ft | 4 items | 1d4+5 |
Two-Weapon Melee
Masterwork Dagger | +7/+7 | 19-20x2
P/S | 10ft | 4 items | 1d4+5/1d4+5 |
Ranged
Dagger | +8 | 19-20x2
P/S | 10ft | 4 items | 1d4-2 |
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SKILLS (Total = Stat + Ranks + Modifiers)
Acrobatics (Dex)* 11 =5+3+3
Appraise (Int)* 5 =1+1+3
Bluff (Cha)* 6 =1+2+3 (+2 when in conceal/cover)
Climb (Str)*
Craft Alchemy (Int)* 7 =1+2+4
Diplomacy (Cha)* 8 =1+2+5
Disable Device (Dex)* 12 =5+4+3
Disguise (Cha)* 5 =1+1+3
Escape Artist (Dex)* 9 =5+1+3
Fly (Dex)
Handle Animal (Wis)
Heal (Wis)
Intimidate (Cha)* 5 =1+1+3 (+2 when in concealment)
Knowledge (arcana) (Int)
Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int)* 6 =1+2+3
Knowledge (engineering) (Int)
Knowledge (geography) (Int)
Knowledge (history) (Int)
Knowledge (local) (Int)* 6 =1+2+3
Knowledge (nature) (Int)
Knowledge (nobility) (Int)
Knowledge (planes) (Int)
Knowledge (religion) (Int)
Linguistics (Int)* 5 =1+1+3
Perception (Wis)* 11 =1+4+6 (+2 when in concealment)(+1 vs surprise)
Perform (Cha)*
Profession (Wis)*
Ride (Dex)
Sense Motive (Wis)* 10 =1+4+5
Sleight of Hand (Dex)* 9 =5+1+3 (+2 when in conceal/cover)
Spellcraft (Int)
Stealth (Dex)* 12 =5+4+3 (+2 when in concealment)
Survival (Wis)
Swim (Str)*
Use Magic Device (Cha)* 8 =1+4+3
* Class Skill
Languages: Common, Orc
Bonus Languages: Abyssal, Draconic
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FEATS
1st: Two-Weapon Fighting
2nd: Rogue Talent: Combat Expertise
3rd: Skill Focus (Perception)
4th: Rogue Talent: Improved Feint
[5th: Bleeding Attack]
[6th: Rogue Talent: Piranha Strike]
[7th: Flensing Strike]
[9th: Shadow's Shroud]
[11th: Divert Harm]
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RACIAL ABILITIES
Behind the Veil (1 RP): Characters with this trait gain a +2 bonus on Bluff and Sleight of Hand checks while benefiting from concealment or cover. Half-orcs can take this trait in place of intimidating, also gaining the shadow blending fetchling racial trait.
Darkvision: Half-orcs can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
Dimdweller: Whenever characters with this trait benefit from concealment or full concealment due to darkness or dim light, they gain a +2 racial bonus on Intimidate, Perception, and Stealth checks. Half-orcs can take this trait in place of weapon familiarity.
Orc Blood: Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.
Sacred Tattoo: Many half-orcs decorate themselves with tattoos, piercings, and ritual scarification, which they consider sacred markings. Half-orcs with this racial trait gain a +1 luck bonus on all saving throws. This racial trait replaces orc ferocity.
Shadow Blending (Su): Attacks in dim light have a 50% miss chance instead of the normal 20% miss chance. This ability does not grant total concealment; it just increases the miss chance.
TRAITS
Fate’s Favored (Faith): Whenever you are under the effect of a luck bonus of any kind, that bonus increases by 1.
Reactionary (Combat): +2 trait bonus to Initiative.
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CLASS ABILITIES
Danger Sense: At 3rd Level, +1 to Reflex vs traps. +1 dodge AC vs traps. +1 Perception vs Surprise. Bonuses increase every 3 levels.
Debilitating Injury: 4th Level. In addition to sneak attack, the rogue can debilitate an enemy for 1 round with Bewildered, Disoriented, or Hampered injuries. These do not stack, but additional sneak attacks increase the duration by 1 round. These penalties do are removed if another debilitating injury penalty is applied.
Evasion: 2nd Level. If the rogue succeeds at a reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage, they take no damage. Evasion can only be used if in light or no armor.
Finesse Training: The rogue gains the weapon finesse feat. At 3rd, the rogue can select a type of weapon and apply their dex mod instead of str (daggers). If any effect would prevent the rogue from adding their Strength modifier to the damage roll, they do not add their Dexterity modifier. The rogue can select a second weapon at 11th level and a third at 19th level.
Rogue's Edge: At 5th level, a rogue has mastered a single skill beyond that skill’s normal boundaries, gaining results that others can only dream about. They gain the skill unlock powers for that skill as appropriate for their number of ranks in that skill. At 10th, 15th, and 20th levels, she chooses an additional skill and gains skill unlock powers for that skill as well.
Sneak Attack: 2d6
Trapfinding: A rogue adds 1/2 her level on Perception checks to locate traps and on Disable Device checks (minimum +1). A rogue can use Disable Device to disarm magic traps.
Uncanny Dodge: At 4th level, a rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, nor does she lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A rogue with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action against her.
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EQUIPMENT
Gold 2pp 18gp 3sp 10cp
Carrying Capacity 23/46/70/70/140/350
Weight 20 lbs
Carried Items
Eclipsed Spell-Continual Flame Ioun Stone
(50gp Ruby Dust+50gp 2ndlevel spell services) + Dull Grey Stone 125gp -
Handy Haversack 2000gp 5lbs
Holy Symbol 1gp -
Masterwork Concealed Daggers x2 604gp 2lbs
Concealed Cold Iron Daggers x2 8gp 2lbs
Mithril Shirt 1100gp 10lbs
Reversible Cloak of Resistance +1 1000gp 1lb
In Handy Haversack 63/100lbs
Acid Flask x5 50gp 5lbs
Bedroll 1sp 5lbs
Cold Iron Morningstar 16gp 6lb
Darkflare x5 5gp -
Darklight Lantern 20gp 3lbs
Heatstone 20gp 1lb
Kit, Gear Maintenance 5gp 2lbs
Kit, Grooming 1gp 2lbs
Kit, Scrivener's 2gp 1lb
Kit, Shaving 15gp 1/2lbs
Parchment x20 4gp -
Portable Alchemist's Lab 75gp 20lbs
Sap x2 2gp 4lbs
Shadowcloy Flask x2 50gp 2lbs
Trail Rations (5 days) 2gp 5sp 5lbs
Wand of Divine Favor (50) 750gp -
Waterskin 1gp 4lbs
Weapon Blanch, adamantine 100gp 1lb
Weapon Blanch, silver 5gp 1lb
It seems like you're under the impression you can take the Combat Trick Rogue Talent several times?
A rogue cannot select an individual talent more than once.
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1st: Two-Weapon Fighting
2nd: Rogue Talent: Combat Expertise
3rd: Skill Focus (Perception)
4th: Rogue Talent: Improved Feint (1)
[5th: Bleeding Attack]
[6th: Rogue Talent: Piranha Strike]] (2)
[7th: Flensing Strike]
[9th: Shadow's Shroud]
[11th: Divert Harm] (3)
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1: Feinting is a really poor idea at lower levels. It's probably better to move into a flanking position or just full-attack if you're in a position to feint.It's only good when you can do so as part of a full-attack, so I'd not spend any feats on it and wait for your 10th level when you can take the Stalker Talent to get the Cunning Feint Vigilante Talent.
2: You should never use Piranha Strike if you want to hit your opponent. It's only useful if you fight something you can't sneak attack, but if you do then it's honestly not your job to DPS.
3: Very circumstantial, and you forgo your own saving throw if they succeed. Most people look at the Twist Away feat.
Thanks for the input.
The thing I was going for was to feint and then piranha strike, so that it was more viable by hitting their flat-footed AC in a full attack situation. If at higher levels as you suggest I take the Stalker Talent and Cunning Feint Vigilante Talent, then would it still not be wise to take Piranha Strike?
The thing I was going for was to feint and then piranha strike, so that it was more viable by hitting their flat-footed AC in a full attack situation.
Feinting is usually worth around +2 to attack. Its main purpose is to allow Sneak Attack, but it's not any good if you can't full-attack and feint at the same time.
If at higher levels as you suggest I take the Stalker Talent and Cunning Feint Vigilante Talent, then would it still not be wise to take Piranha Strike?
You can without much effort boost your accuracy high enough so that the damage bonus from Piranha Strike is worth the attack penalty, but you're not really in need of damage since you get it from your class.
It's a better idea to increase your defenses, get flight, or secure full-attacks rather than to solely focus on damage.
Okay, cool. Thanks
I am thinking I am going to lean more toward TWF. I took out the improved feint, combat expertise, piranha strike, and divert harm.
I chose dagger because some things you just don't want to touch with your mouth (Acid cubes, porcupines, Giant Sea Urchins). I contemplated daggers also because it was a piercing/slashing weapon. Otherwise I would have taken Short Sword. I was wanting all damage types in my portfolio (Bludgeoning from saps or morningstar).
That's an interesting build Scott. I will definitely have to consider it. Never thought of using a 2h weapon for finesse like that. Would you suggest going human to pull it off quicker by getting the feat, or stick half-orc with the build I have?
Half-orc Unchained Rogue 4
STR 7
DEX 20 (+2 Racial)
CON 14
INT 13
WIS 12
CHA 12
Make your point-buy work for you by multiclassing to get the features you're most interested in more cheaply. In your build, maximum dexterity is of apparent primary interest, so avail thyself of one of the three bloodrager or barbarian archetypes that permit dex-raging. E.g. the same half-orc or human could be...
Str: 7
Dex+ 17 (+1 at 4th, rages to 22)
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 14 (better mental stats; yay!)
Cha: 12
...or, if your race choice lets out some air....
Str: 8 (halfling, 15,15,12,12,12,10 20pt array; +1 size to AC and all attacks)
Dex+ 17 (see above, also +4 to stealth* vs normies w/same dex)
Con: 12
Int: 12
Wis: 12
Cha+ 17 (all social skills including UMD are class skills)
(*See the Human Shadow racial alternative trait for wacky hijinks.)
Levels:
01 [rage class][12 or 10 hitpoints][martial profs & medium armor][fort+2]
02 (multiclass into rogue)
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
The other thing about Feinting is that Improved Feint lets you Feint as a Move Action. So then you can attack locking in your Sneak Attack Damage as a Standard Action. But that means you aren't using 2 weapon fighting. So, why bother even taking 2 weapon fighting? There might be a reason, or maybe you should find some other way to get extra attacks.I'd keep the TWF and forget about feinting for the time being. Two dex>damage attacks without SA at 3rd are better than one + SA. I might also add that the OP's charisma score isn't that fantastic. Versus a CR 1/3 goblin warrior with a -1 will save, the OP at 1st with a skill point in Bluff has a +5 to beat a DC of 10. The skill-check is easy enough to make (considering that goblin warriors are the easiest suckers in the bestiary to fool), but you still need to also hit with your separate attack roll (and flat-footed goblin warrior are only +2 easier to hit because the punks have armor).
I think you should have more than 1 way to lock in your Sneak Attack Damage like Canny Tumble, Dirty Tricks, Dazzling Display, something.
Unchained rogues past 3rd have a lot less overbearing need to rely on SA, and can treat it as once-in-awhile gravy rather than breaking their behinds to have it omnipresent. Much of the time you'd rather not be in toe-to-toe slugfest melee anyway due to still being quite fragile compared to meatwall classes.)
With such a massive dexterity score, sniping from hiding is a reliable means of securing one-shot SAs, and any mechanism to get back into hiding quickly should be front-burnered, especially when enemy casters are fishing for targets with horrible saving-throws.
Why Dagger? You are a Half Orc, you could develop a Bite Attack. That is Finesse-able, and it does 1d6 instead of the Dagger's 1d4. Is it that Daggers are also Ranged?
That's an interesting build Scott. I will definitely have to consider it. Never thought of using a 2h weapon for finesse like that. Would you suggest going human to pull it off quicker by getting the feat, or stick half-orc with the build I have?Sure, but Half Orcs have lots of fine qualities, so do other races.
The game is a lot easier when you consider the Tolkienesque core races "honorary humans", and then choose the one most suitable for the class you have in mind.
The game is a lot easier when you consider the Tolkienesque core races "honorary humans", and then choose the one most suitable for the class you have in mind.Maybe, but the OP started the thread with a Half Orc, and if they still want to play a Half Orc, I think that's just swell.
I never suggested that he not play a half-orc. (Half-orcs make decent if unexceptional rogues.)
What I suggested was that he not murder his point-buy to get a 20 at 1st-level. That 20 represent *only* a +5 to attack and damage. "Only!?", I hear you retort. Yes. Only. Sure: it's *everything* at 1st, when your average adversary has AC13 and 7hp. But as you level, the percentage of attack and damage obtained via the raw stat bonus rapidly dwindles, while the irritations of crippled saving-throws and butchered skills dog the minmax/pointbuy character every millipede step along the way. By 4th, a rogue will be getting +3 to hit from BAB, +1 from a belt, +1 from a feat, and +1 from a masterwork weapon -- meaning that those 17-crushed-out-of-20 build points are now contributing less than 50% of his total attack-bonus load after only three level bumps.
01 rogue1 BAB0, Weapon Finesse
-compared to-
01 barbarian1 BAB1, Raging Vitality
The half-orc dex-rogue is +5 to hit at a cost of 17 build-points for a racially-bumped 20 at 1st level. The barbarian, if built with Str 16 and Con 15 (point-buy of 17 for both stats), rages for +6 to hit at 1st-level, and has 15hp during battle versus the rogue's 10hp (assuming a 14 con). Half-orcs make decent rogues; they make excellent barbarians...who can then multiclass two to four levels of rogue and do really nicely after the beef is salted away at 1st.
Dexterity tricks require greater system-mastery to pull off, as they're typically associated with more fragile builds (e.g., rogues with poor saving throws deliberately seeking melee rather than sniping roles catering to their innate stealth, builds with penalized strength scores getting stuffed by grapple monsters, AC going from terrific to terrible while flat-footed, and so forth). It's all solvable, but it's a lot of work. Meanwhile, the dwarf in ō-yoroi with a tower shield wonders why everybody keeps dying all the time. "Never gettin' hit works for me!"
The Pathfinder iconic knife-chucker rogue (Merisiel, prudently built with an 18 rather than 20 Dex at 1st) works because she stays out of the full-attack range of her opponents. Rogues who deliberately seek out melee have to be very careful. Merisiel is also an elf, a race with built-in mental defenses, so she can get away with a garbage wisdom score to pay for those good physical attributes (not that she doesn't still blow saves routinely, which the comics have a lot of fun with).