
Pro100Andr |

Inquisitor of irori gain only IUS feat, with normal d3 damage. Strengh(fist) domain and bane can buff damage, but only for some time. I think 1-3 levels of UnMonk can give some self protection abilities.
Multuclass can hurts to spellcasting, judjments and bane, but i focus on combat more then spellcasting. To reduse judments i want take archetype that replace judments, for example Sacrificed Slayer. For Bane extra Bane and Extended can help.
I think 1-2 levels is ok, but 3rd gives ki and still mind, thats gives access to Monastic legacy.
I think focus on Str and Wis, and dump Cha
Power attack, weapon focus, toughness , dodge is feats that i think needed.
How you think, how i need multiclass and feats i need to choose?

Scott Wilhelm |
What do you want your character to do when you are in Combat? High Damage? Battlefield control? Buffing or Debuffing? Shooting arrows? Do you want to focus on 1 or more Combat Maneuvers? A high Full Attack? Attacks of Opportunity?
Also, why Strength? Why Irori? I want to sort out your priorities?
I have a lot of ideas you might be interested in.

Pro100Andr |

What do you want your character to do when you are in Combat? High Damage? Battlefield control? Buffing or Debuffing? Shooting arrows? Do you want to focus on 1 or more Combat Maneuvers? A high Full Attack? Attacks of Opportunity?
Also, why Strength? Why Irori? I want to sort out your priorities?
I have a lot of ideas you might be interested in.
I plan to do damage with unarmed strikes, bane and some attack spells.
Main Stat is wisdom, because Monk and Inquisitor use Wisdom for their abilities. Strengh for damage.Irori because irori is god of self-perfection,respecting and fighting vs evil and corrupsion( if i not correct, plz correct me)
Inquisitor abilities not very dependent on the deity, and because of that i think to multiclass with monk. I think monk abilities must be at every that worship to Irori

avr |

Irori is indeed a god of monks. Not all monks will worship him, but I think he was made to be the default god for monks. Not necessarily about fighting evil/corruption BTW, his is a mostly inward-directed self-perfection. Irori is a seriously boring character IMO.
Monastic legacy is a useful feat only if you've got a character class with lots of feats, or maybe if you're playing to very high levels. The damage added is not a lot. Usually if you're trying to optimise damage in D&D or PF you aim for higher flat damage bonuses rather than more/better damage dice.
Any inquisitor including sanctified slayer gets more bonuses from staying in class. Besides the basic higher-level buff spells being better than lower-level, studied target gets better every 5 levels and getting bane/greater bane earlier is better than later. You can make a solid killer with just the unchained monk class, but if you're going to mix unMonk/inquisitor then you want as much inquisitor as possible - Monk 1 / Inquisitor X. Maybe Monk 2 if you find you desperately need the second bonus feat. Maybe.
The main advantage of fighting unarmed is that style feats work best with unarmed. With mostly 3/4 BAB you may want to avoid styles with significant BAB prereqs.

Pro100Andr |

Irori is indeed a god of monks. Not all monks will worship him, but I think he was made to be the default god for monks. Not necessarily about fighting evil/corruption BTW, his is a mostly inward-directed self-perfection. Irori is a seriously boring character IMO.
Monastic legacy is a useful feat only if you've got a character class with lots of feats, or maybe if you're playing to very high levels. The damage added is not a lot. Usually if you're trying to optimise damage in D&D or PF you aim for higher flat damage bonuses rather than more/better damage dice.
Any inquisitor including sanctified slayer gets more bonuses from staying in class. Besides the basic higher-level buff spells being better than lower-level, studied target gets better every 5 levels and getting bane/greater bane earlier is better than later. You can make a solid killer with just the unchained monk class, but if you're going to mix unMonk/inquisitor then you want as much inquisitor as possible - Monk 1 / Inquisitor X. Maybe Monk 2 if you find you desperately need the second bonus feat. Maybe.
The main advantage of fighting unarmed is that style feats work best with unarmed. With mostly 3/4 BAB you may want to avoid styles with significant BAB prereqs.
This inquisitor is middle level character. Take evasion can be usefull

Scott Wilhelm |
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Monastic legacy is a useful feat only if you've got a character class with lots of feats, or maybe if you're playing to very high levels. The damage added is not a lot. Usually if you're trying to optimise damage in D&D or PF you aim for higher flat damage bonuses rather than more/better damage dice.
What if he became a Fighter/Inquisitor?
With only 5 levels in Fighter, he might get Advanced Fighter Weapon Trait like Focused Weapon which allows him to apply Warpriest Sacred Weapon Damage to his Unarmed Strikes. He could get away with 1 level in Brawler and 4 levels in Fighter.
Irori is a seriously boring character IMO.
How about if he took the Growth Subdomain of Plant? Then he'd get Enlarge Person as a Spell-like Ability 3+Wis times/day.

Mysterious Stranger |

Irori has no real interest in fighting evil. His alignment is LN not LG, so he even has evil worshipers. Since you only have to be within one step of the alignment of your deity you can be a LG worshiper of Irori but the fact remains your deity care nothing about fighting evil and in some cases supports it. If you are looking for a deity that actively fights evil you may want to consider another deity.
Inquisitors are generally given more leeway than clerics in following the teachings of their deity so Irori could still work, but you would be kind of a fringe worshiper. You would be that strange guy who is always harping on helping others instead of perfecting yourself.
Multiclassing in this case gives a mixed blessing. You get some nice abilities that synergize well, but only for very short periods. Almost all of your special abilities are limited use so when going full out you will be very good, but when you are on empty you are going to be weaker. Most classes have this weakness, but multiclassing makes it even worse.

Scott Wilhelm |
Scott Wilhelm wrote:What do you want your character to do when you are in Combat? High Damage? Battlefield control? Buffing or Debuffing? Shooting arrows? Do you want to focus on 1 or more Combat Maneuvers? A high Full Attack? Attacks of Opportunity?
Also, why Strength? Why Irori? I want to sort out your priorities?
I have a lot of ideas you might be interested in.
I plan to do damage with unarmed strikes, bane and some attack spells.
Do you want to focus on the Full Attack Action? I have other ideas for doing lots of Damage.

Pro100Andr |

Irori has no real interest in fighting evil. His alignment is LN not LG, so he even has evil worshipers. Since you only have to be within one step of the alignment of your deity you can be a LG worshiper of Irori but the fact remains your deity care nothing about fighting evil and in some cases supports it. If you are looking for a deity that actively fights evil you may want to consider another deity.
Inquisitors are generally given more leeway than clerics in following the teachings of their deity so Irori could still work, but you would be kind of a fringe worshiper. You would be that strange guy who is always harping on helping others instead of perfecting yourself.
Multiclassing in this case gives a mixed blessing. You get some nice abilities that synergize well, but only for very short periods. Almost all of your special abilities are limited use so when going full out you will be very good, but when you are on empty you are going to be weaker. Most classes have this weakness, but multiclassing makes it even worse.
Im not big fan of Irori , but only Irori i think can give monk-like abilities

Pro100Andr |

Pro100Andr wrote:Do you want to focus on the Full Attack Action? I have other ideas for doing lots of Damage.Scott Wilhelm wrote:What do you want your character to do when you are in Combat? High Damage? Battlefield control? Buffing or Debuffing? Shooting arrows? Do you want to focus on 1 or more Combat Maneuvers? A high Full Attack? Attacks of Opportunity?
Also, why Strength? Why Irori? I want to sort out your priorities?
I have a lot of ideas you might be interested in.
I plan to do damage with unarmed strikes, bane and some attack spells.
Full attack can be dangerous , so i dont want focus on full attack

Pro100Andr |

What if he became a Fighter/Inquisitor?
With only 5 levels in Fighter, he might get Advanced Fighter Weapon Trait like Focused Weapon which allows him to apply Warpriest Sacred Weapon Damage to his Unarmed Strikes. He could get away with 1 level in Brawler and 4 levels in Fighter.
avr wrote:Irori is a seriously boring character IMO.How about if he took the Growth Subdomain of Plant? Then he'd get Enlarge Person as a Spell-like Ability 3+Wis times/day.
Focused weapon scales with Fighter level. If i will take after Inquisitor, focused weapon damage dont will upgrading
For domain i think Strengh(fist) more usefull
Scott Wilhelm |
You want to be a Sacrificed Slayer. So you will be doing Sneak Attack Damage. How do you feel about developing Sneak Attack Damage?
1Brawler1: Snakebite Striker: Unaremd 1d6, Sneak Attack 1d6, Martial Cunning, Martial Training, Dirty Fighting, BAB+1
2B1Arcanist1: Dimensional Slide, Wizard and Sorcerer SpellsDimensional Slide lets you Teleport up to 10 Feat more than 3/day as part of your Move, and it doesn't end your turn. Not very far, but it should make it much easier to achieve Flanking and lock in your SA Damage.
3B2A1: Improved Feint, Accomplished Sneak Attacker, BAB+2
4B3A1: Snake Feint, BAB+3
With Improved Feint, and Snake Feint, you can Feint while Moving and now you have 2 really good ways of locking in your SA Damage.
5B3A1Inquisitor1: Sanctified Slayer: Studied Target, Strength Domain, Monster Lore, Stern Gaze, Improved Trip
6B3A1I2: Cunning Initiative, Detect Alignment, Tracking, BAB+4
7B3A1I3: Broken Wing Gambit, Combat Reflexes, BAB+5
8B3A1I4: Sneak Attack 1d6, BAB+6
9B3A1I5: Bane, Discern Lies, Harder they Fall
So, by level 9, you get your Bane. Your Unarmed Base Damage is 1d6, but you get 3d6 Sneak Attack Damage and you have 2 good ways to lock it in: Feinting and Flanking. Plus, you get an Attack of Opportunity almost whenever you are attacked (Broken Wing Gambit + Solo Tactics), and you've got Tripping going. Harder They Fall makes it so you can Trip opponents of any Size.
In Further Levels, I'd have you take Paired Opportunist though a 1 level dip into Cavalier, so you give out Attacks of Opportunity to all your Allies. Some other Feats to take: Coordinated Maneuvers, Tandem Trip, Precise Strike, Greater Trip, Vicious Stomp, Sap Adept, Knockout Artist.
I might have you veer off from Inquisitor and take levels in Ninja or Unchained Rogue, but Dex-to-Damage with your Unarmed Strikes might suggest you should Strength Dump and that would requires you to start dipping into UR sooner and get your Inquisitor levels later. I might have you take Panther Style Feats, getting Bonus Attacks while Moving.

Pro100Andr |

Scott Wilhelm wrote:You want to be a Sacrificed Slayer. So you will be doing Sneak Attack Damage. How do you feel about developing Sneak Attack Damage?1Brawler1: Snakebite Striker: Unaremd 1d6, Sneak Attack 1d6, Martial Cunning, Martial Training, Dirty Fighting, BAB+1
2B1Arcanist1: Dimensional Slide, Wizard and Sorcerer SpellsDimensional Slide lets you Teleport up to 10 Feat more than 3/day as part of your Move, and it doesn't end your turn. Not very far, but it should make it much easier to achieve Flanking and lock in your SA Damage.
3B2A1: Improved Feint, Accomplished Sneak Attacker, BAB+2
4B3A1: Snake Feint, BAB+3With Improved Feint, and Snake Feint, you can Feint while Moving and now you have 2 really good ways of locking in your SA Damage.
5B3A1Inquisitor1: Sanctified Slayer: Studied Target, Strength Domain, Monster Lore, Stern Gaze, Improved Trip
6B3A1I2: Cunning Initiative, Detect Alignment, Tracking, BAB+4
7B3A1I3: Broken Wing Gambit, Combat Reflexes, BAB+5
8B3A1I4: Sneak Attack 1d6, BAB+6
9B3A1I5: Bane, Discern Lies, Harder they FallSo, by level 9, you get your Bane. Your Unarmed Base Damage is 1d6, but you get 3d6 Sneak Attack Damage and you have 2 good ways to lock it in: Feinting and Flanking. Plus, you get an Attack of Opportunity almost whenever you are attacked (Broken Wing Gambit + Solo Tactics), and you've got Tripping going. Harder They Fall makes it so you can Trip opponents of any Size.
In Further Levels, I'd have you take Paired Opportunist though a 1 level dip into Cavalier, so you give out Attacks of Opportunity to all your Allies. Some other Feats to take: Coordinated Maneuvers, Tandem Trip, Precise Strike, Greater Trip, Vicious Stomp, Sap Adept, Knockout Artist.
I might have you veer off from Inquisitor and take levels in Ninja or Unchained Rogue, but Dex-to-Damage with your Unarmed Strikes might suggest you should Strength Dump and that would requires you to start dipping into UR sooner and get...
I think take Arcanist only for dimensional slide is bad idea. It hurts to Bba(full caster have 1/2BBA), and i cant casting arcane spells in armor

Scott Wilhelm |
I think take Arcanist only for dimensional slide is bad idea. It hurts to Bba(full caster have 1/2BBA), and i cant casting arcane spells in armor
That's cool: I'm just sharing ideas: I'm not really trying to tell you what to do. I hope you found some of my ideas helpful, or at least interesting.

Pro100Andr |

Pro100Andr wrote:I think take Arcanist only for dimensional slide is bad idea. It hurts to Bba(full caster have 1/2BBA), and i cant casting arcane spells in armorThat's cool: I'm just sharing ideas: I'm not really trying to tell you what to do. I hope you found some of my ideas helpful, or at least interesting.
I am grateful for your ideas, I just think some aspects are superfluous

Scott Wilhelm |
Scott Wilhelm wrote:I am grateful for your ideas, I just think some aspects are superfluousPro100Andr wrote:I think take Arcanist only for dimensional slide is bad idea. It hurts to Bba(full caster have 1/2BBA), and i cant casting arcane spells in armorThat's cool: I'm just sharing ideas: I'm not really trying to tell you what to do. I hope you found some of my ideas helpful, or at least interesting.
So, if you like the idea of doing Sneak Attack Damage, bear in mind that one of the reason why I had that build dipping a level into Arcanist is to lock in a way to get Sneak Attack Damage: Dimensional Slide. Also, it opens the doors to a utility: you would be able to use any Wizard or Sorcerer Magic Wands including such things as a Wand of Greater Invisibility, which would give you another way to lock in your Sneak Attack Damage. Without those, your character should have more ways to get that SA Damage than just feinting. I have a few favorites.
Canny Tumble denies your opponent their Dex Mod to AC with a successful Tumble Check. On top of Canny Tumble, you can get Circling Mongoose which lets you Full Attack while doing that.
Dirty Tricks can Blind your opponents.
If you dip 3 levels in Bard with the Flame Dancer Archetype, you and all your allies the ability to see through fire and smoke, then get yourself an Eversmoking Bottle or cast a Pyrotechnics Spell, and then everybody but you and yours is Blind. You'll be like that seamstress serial killer in Silence of the Lamb with the night-vision goggles.
Full attack can be dangerous , so I don't want focus on full attack
So, for a character that moves all over the battlefield, I like Panther Style Feats. Panther Claw gives you a Free Action Unarmed Strike every time you Provoke an Attack of Opportunity by Moving out of a Threatened Square. Panther Parry makes your Unarmed Strike come first, and if it hits, they get a -2 on their Attack Roll. If you do this, you should almost definitely take Dodge and Mobility: you'll be drawing lots of extra attacks, so you'll be wanting that +5AC. You are thinking Irori, the Monk Deity. If you dip into Monk Master of Many Styles, you can use 2 Style Feats. I like Snake Style. The capstone Snake Style Feat gives you an Unarmed Attack of Opportunity whenever you are attacked and missed.

Pro100Andr |

Pro100Andr wrote:Scott Wilhelm wrote:I am grateful for your ideas, I just think some aspects are superfluousPro100Andr wrote:I think take Arcanist only for dimensional slide is bad idea. It hurts to Bba(full caster have 1/2BBA), and i cant casting arcane spells in armorThat's cool: I'm just sharing ideas: I'm not really trying to tell you what to do. I hope you found some of my ideas helpful, or at least interesting.So, if you like the idea of doing Sneak Attack Damage, bear in mind that one of the reason why I had that build dipping a level into Arcanist is to lock in a way to get Sneak Attack Damage: Dimensional Slide. Also, it opens the doors to a utility: you would be able to use any Wizard or Sorcerer Magic Wands including such things as a Wand of Greater Invisibility, which would give you another way to lock in your Sneak Attack Damage. Without those, your character should have more ways to get that SA Damage than just feinting. I have a few favorites.
Canny Tumble denies your opponent their Dex Mod to AC with a successful Tumble Check. On top of Canny Tumble, you can get Circling Mongoose which lets you Full Attack while doing that.
Dirty Tricks can Blind your opponents.
If you dip 3 levels in Bard with the Flame Dancer Archetype, you and all your allies the ability to see through fire and smoke, then get yourself an Eversmoking Bottle or cast a Pyrotechnics Spell, and then everybody but you and yours is Blind. You'll be like that seamstress serial killer in Silence of the Lamb with the night-vision goggles.
Pro100Andr wrote:Full attack can be dangerous , so I don't want focus on full attackSo, for a character that moves all over the battlefield, I like Panther Style Feats. Panther Claw gives you a Free Action Unarmed Strike every time you Provoke an Attack of Opportunity by Moving out of a Threatened Square. Panther Parry makes your Unarmed Strike come first, and if it hits, they get a -2 on their Attack Roll. If...
Snake and Panter i think can give you 3 attacks, if someone miss you. Its realy strong.

avr |

Using snake style and panther style together takes a ridiculous number of feats (6 + IUS minimum, and you could use combat style master, to say nothing of the last panther feat) and - I'm sorry to harp on this - a lot of swift actions. A couple to get started with MoMS, then each round you choose one of the snake feat benefits. Snake fang and snake style each want your swift/immediate, snake sidewind could use it too. And panther style all but turns off if your enemy refuses to play ball.
They're not that great.

Pro100Andr |

Using snake style and panther style together takes a ridiculous number of feats (6 + IUS minimum, and you could use combat style master, to say nothing of the last panther feat) and - I'm sorry to harp on this - a lot of swift actions. A couple to get started with MoMS, then each round you choose one of the snake feat benefits. Snake fang and snake style each want your swift/immediate, snake sidewind could use it too. And panther style all but turns off if your enemy refuses to play ball.
They're not that great.
Again troubles with swift action. This problem works on every MOMS fusing styles?

Scott Wilhelm |
Using snake style and panther style together takes a ridiculous number of feats (6 + IUS minimum
That is fair to say, but I think it's worth it. It gives you the capability of giving you a whole mess of attacks/round and giving your allies lots of attacks/round.
I have a character build that gets Panther Parry and Snake Fang by level 9.
then each round you choose one of the snake feat benefits. Snake fang and snake style each want your swift/immediate, snake sidewind could use it too.
Well, that's not so bad. If you are fighting a single opponent, and you want to substitute your AC for your Sense Motive Check, that is a very different situation then running around the battlefieled striking multiple opponents.
And panther style all but turns off if your enemy refuses to play ball.
They're not that great.
If your GM wants to cheat and gives his monsters and NPCs the GM's knowledge about your character, there is little you can do anyway, but not nothing.
Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents.
your retaliatory unarmed strikes are resolved before the triggering attacks.
When you take Panther Parry, you don't have to wait for your opponent to condescend to actually make his AoO before you get yours. If he still refuses to take his AoO, remember that Snake Fang triggers AoOs on all attacks, not just attacks of opporutunity made to trigger Panther Style.
Meanwhile, if the situation is that your character moves at will around the battlefield provoking your enemies constantly, but they are afraid to take action, well, you've just about won the battle anyway, mosttimes.

avr |

The monsters and NPCs might quite reasonably have knowledge about your character, either because they've seen you use the trick already in the fight, or because you're a Big Damn Hero 9th level adventurer and they've heard about you. Not all campaigns are PFS where you're banned from having an effect on the world
Panther parry doesn't get around the problem either, it lets you reorder your attack before theirs but that's all! It still needs the trigger. Moving without worrying about AoOs mostly is nice but not worth the cost - it's not an I Win button. Snake fang not requiring panther style is fine but no fix for the latter.
If you like the options of snake and think they're necessarily worth the cost, even if you can use only one a round, we may just disagree there.

Scott Wilhelm |
Panther parry doesn't get around the problem either, it lets you reorder your attack before theirs but that's all! It still needs the trigger.
But Moving out of a Threatened Square does Provoke an Attack of Opportunity, then the Monk gets the Free Action Unarmed Retaliatory, Strike, then the opponent gets to make the Attack of Opportunity.
Are you saying that even though Panther Parry says the Monk gets to Act first, that the opponent still gets to jump bid and say, "No, you don't get this Attack because I have decided I won't be taking mine." That doesn't make much sense. I don't think the opponent gets to decide whether to take his AoO until it's his turn to.

avr |

I'm saying the opponent gets to declare whether they're going to take an AoO, then the panther parry user gets to interrupt that. You seem to be saying that the panther parry user gets to assume that the opponent will take the AoO whatever their actual intention. That last isn't in any panther feat that I can see, and it's not in the AoO rules you quoted either.

Scott Wilhelm |
The monsters and NPCs might quite reasonably have knowledge about your character, either because they've seen you use the trick already in the fight, or because you're a Big Damn Hero 9th level adventurer and they've heard about you. Not all campaigns are PFS where you're banned from having an effect on the world
It's one thing to know that to know The Sicilian Crowd is formidable. It is another to know that Inigo Montoya has Ascetic Style on his 6-Fingered Rapier and uses to apply Panther Style Feats to it. Do these NPCs even know what Panther Style Feats even are?
It's one thing to realize that the little Goblin running around the battlefield is getting lots of bonus attacks. But what Knowledge or Perception check DC will your GM roll for himself to allow his NPCs to realize that the Goblin running around the battlefield is getting his bonus attacks by Provoking Attacks of Opportunity?
It can happen. But it should take more than mere reputation. "That one is the one that uses Panther Style Feats, so even if he provokes and attack of opportunity, for gods' sake, don't take it: it's a trap!" That's not just knowing about the party: that's Bill Belichick-level Knowledge!
I'm saying the opponent gets to declare whether they're going to take an AoO, then the panther parry user gets to interrupt that. You seem to be saying that the panther parry user gets to assume that the opponent will take the AoO whatever their actual intention. That last isn't in any panther feat that I can see,
Your interpretation isn't there, either. Panther Parry doesn't say that the Retaliatory Strike "Interrupts" the AoO. It just says that it comes before the AoO. If the AoO never comes, then the PP RS still comes first.
You seem to be saying that the panther parry user gets to assume that the opponent will take the AoO whatever their actual intention.
I guess I kind of am. I think that it is very rare that anybody doesn't take Attacks of Opportunity when the Opportunity arises. The only time I've ever seen it happen is when the GM was metagaming.
The real limitation on Panther Style Feats I've seen in action is that the costs usually outweigh the benefits. Most Monks don't have very good AC or many Hit Points, and a lot of those provoked AoOs actually hit and hurt! I consider it essential, therefore for a Panther Style master to take Dodge and Mobility, which speaks speaks to your very valid point that the build feature I am talking about is very, very Feat-hungry.