Some hazards utilize different skills to disable them, such as using religion to exocise a haunt. This is fairly easy to run before a hazard triggers, but a complex hazard might need to be disabled during encounter rounds. And some hazards require multiple successes to disable.
1) How many actions does it take for an attempt to disable a hazard using skills other than thievery? For example, to use Religion to exorcise a haunt or diplomacy to calm the spirits. My gut says 2 actions, treatingit exactly like the Disable Advice activity in pretty much all ways except the skill being used and what is happening in the fiction. This doesn't seem to be explicitly said though.
2) How do players find out the skills you can use and the minimum proficiency to do it? I feel like it is easy enough to say that you can tell a device looks too complicated for you by examining it, but it feels weird to apply that to other hazards. This seems like it might be a job for a Recall Knowledge action.
I'd like to give this a bump because I feel it is an important topic. I know that's gauche, but what are you gonna do?
1)
I would say that 2 actions is a great starting point, but that it may absolutely change on a case-to-case basis, depending on what the character actually needs to do. Interestingly, this was a major issue with one of the first PFS scenarios, which includes a dangerous hazard that can be disabled with a variety of skills (requiring a certain number of successes). The hazard was written to be very dangerous and difficult, as the intended action cost for attempting to disable was 1 action, but that information only came in a later forum clarification, and assuming 1 attempt per character per turn resulted in a number of new character deaths and even TPKs.
2)
The couple of times I have had this, I gave the players the information about what was possible as part of the perception or knowledge check that clued them in to the hazard's existence.
However, these are Advice answers, not Rules answers. As far as I've seen, there is no rule to cite.
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There is surprisingly little I can find in the rules to guide us on this but this is how I would interpret what I can find in the rulebook:
Source Core Rulebook pg. 521
"The most versatile method for deactivating traps is the Disable a Device action of the Thievery skill, though most mechanical traps can also simply be smashed, and magical traps can usually be counteracted. Environmental hazards often can be overcome with Nature or Survival, and haunts can often be overcome with Occultism or Religion. The specific skill and DC required to disable a hazard are listed in the hazard’s stat block. As with detecting a hazard, disabling a hazard might require a character to have a certain proficiency rank in the listed skill."
#1: This seems to imply unless otherwise noted (like for that PFS scenario) that while the Skill and the DC can vary the action your taking "Disable A Device" is typically the same, with other notes like "performing an exorcism" providing the flavor of what you are doing for storytelling purposes.
#2: Since for these more unusual traps there is usually a proficiency listed to attempt the disable (trained, master, etc) I would treat that proficiency as being the determining factor on whether they can recognize what would be necessary to disarm the trap automatically. If they could not, a Recall Knowledge check could still grant them this information but that info would also come with the caveat that this is beyond their current skill.
There is surprisingly little I can find in the rules to guide us on this but this is how I would interpret what I can find in the rulebook:
Source Core Rulebook pg. 521
"The most versatile method for deactivating traps is the Disable a Device action of the Thievery skill, though most mechanical traps can also simply be smashed, and magical traps can usually be counteracted. Environmental hazards often can be overcome with Nature or Survival, and haunts can often be overcome with Occultism or Religion. The specific skill and DC required to disable a hazard are listed in the hazard’s stat block. As with detecting a hazard, disabling a hazard might require a character to have a certain proficiency rank in the listed skill."#1: This seems to imply unless otherwise noted (like for that PFS scenario) that while the Skill and the DC can vary the action your taking "Disable A Device" is typically the same, with other notes like "performing an exorcism" providing the flavor of what you are doing for storytelling purposes.
#2: Since for these more unusual traps there is usually a proficiency listed to attempt the disable (trained, master, etc) I would treat that proficiency as being the determining factor on whether they can recognize what would be necessary to disarm the trap automatically. If they could not, a Recall Knowledge check could still grant them this information but that info would also come with the caveat that this is beyond their current skill.
Hmm, I like the idea of only telling them the skill if they actually have the proficiency to implement it. I suppose, realistically, if they don't you can tell them anyway and it won't really matter. But having a solution that is only apparent to someone who knows how to implement it is a good idea.
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I am playing a ghost hunter Thaumaturge. When doing checks to disable a haunt (say is says to use occultism) can I use Esoteric lore instead? Or do I need to invest skill increases to Occultism? We are only lvl two and this is my first Pathfinder game.
Sorry if this is not the right thread.
It is the right forum. It may be the wrong thread.
Anyway,...
No, Esoteric Lore is only used for Recall Knowledge.
Esoteric Lore, a special lore skill that can be used to Recall Knowledge regarding haunts, curses, and creatures of any type, but that can't be used to Recall Knowledge of other topics.
Diverse Lore relaxes the restrictions on what topics you can do Recall Knowledge on, but it is still only for Recall Knowledge.
So you could identify the haunt with Esoteric Lore and learn information about it (you the player learns it - your character remembers it), but you would need to use Occultism to attempt to disable it.
Haunt Ingenuity makes more sense with this ruling too.
Edit: And your Thaumaturge should already be trained in Occultism. As well as Arcana, Nature, and Religion. Thaumaturge gets trained in all four of those automatically at level 1. Increasing proficiency rank in Occultism or Religion would be good for a campaign that involves a lot of haunts though. It will give you a slightly better bonus, and more importantly, will allow you to attempt to disable higher level haunts that have higher proficiency requirements.
Incidentally, since I made this thread, Paizo added errata clarifying the default Disable takes two actions regardless of what skill is used.