Alchemist is strong class, that can be a damage dealer, buffer and tank. The most used tactic is throw bobmds, enchanted by discoveres, or drink mutagen and crash enemy with natural attacks.
But you need to do if you want make alchemist more martial? If you want so have 2 variants: Grenadier Alchemist Archetype or Mutation Warrior+Opportunitist Fighter
Lets see, what this variants give to us
Grenadier:
3/4 BBA
6lvl extracts
Proficiency with on martial weapon
Proficiency with light armor
Mutagen
Discoveris
Bombs with scaling damage
Alchemical Weapon(using alchemical items on weapons)
Precise Bombs as free 2nd level discovery
Directed Blast(bombs splash is a 20-foot cone)
Staggering Blast(if you crit, enemy can became staggered)
Mutation Warrior+Opportunitist Fighter
Full BBA
proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, light, and medium) and shields (including tower shields)
Bravery
Weapon trainig(+4 is max)
Mutagen and mutagen Discoveris
Improved Dirty trick
Alchemical Onslaught( Int to splash damage)
Cunning Edge:( you choose it every 4 level)
Alchemical Admixture(add vial on weapon)
Alchemical Refinement(bonus DC to crafted by you alchemical items)
Bombs(d6 every 3 levels)
Clouded Shift(extra movement if you use smokestick)
Poison Use(you cant poison yourself
Rogue Talent(you can take this talents: deft palm, fast fingers, fast stealth,
honeyed words, lasting poison, minor magic, or quick trapsmith)
If you want be a combat machine, thats buffs yourself, you need pick second variant.
If you want deal not bad damage in melee and with bomds, and buff your Teammates with extracts, you chose is Grenadier. I think to make Grenadier more melee combat oriented you can take 1 level of Fighter for Proficiency with all armor and martial weapons.
Thats my opinion about this idea, what is yours?
You never want archetypes on Fighters. AAT and AWT are too valuable to give away.
All in all, Alchemist is better, because both play the same way: standard action to buff, then dive into battle. The difference is that the standard actions of the Alchemist buff better.
You never want archetypes on Fighters. AAT and AWT are too valuable to give away.
All in all, Alchemist is better, because both play the same way: standard action to buff, then dive into battle. The difference is that the standard actions of the Alchemist buff better.
How you think, take 1 level of fighter for grenadier is good idea?
I'm a huge fan of Beastmorph for a martial Alchemist.
If you can get better weappns from race (Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Elf) great, but even some of the simple weapons are pretty decent.
I don't know if it's the most optimised, but a 1 level dip into Master Chymist seems pretty good (and thematic) as well.
I'm a huge fan of Beastmorph for a martial Alchemist.
If you can get better weappns from race (Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Elf) great, but even some of the simple weapons are pretty decent.
I don't know if it's the most optimised, but a 1 level dip into Master Chymist seems pretty good (and thematic) as well.
For nutaral attack you need multiatack to make penalties lower
Its posible to make melee not feral Grenadier?
1. It's possible.
2. You get nothing out of a Fighter level. Feats, you have plenty.
This Fighter archetype combination is pure gold gestalt with the Beastmorph/Vivisectionist Alchemist!!!
Just use your imagination...
2. You get nothing out of a Fighter level. Feats, you have plenty.
Fighter will give proficiancy with all martial weapons and all armor
I think for Grenadier Dex build is better, but for that i need more feats
This combination of archetypes is best suited for a Dex-based build, because you are absolutely taking Wings @ level 7...
And throwing Bombs will benefit from the better Dexterity, as will flying.
You can even munchkin madness with the Half-Elf and pursue the Elven Battle Torrent feats to get better mileage out of a high Intelligence score for more/better Bombs.
This combination of archetypes is best suited for a Dex-based build, because you are absolutely taking Wings @ level 7...
And throwing Bombs will benefit from the better Dexterity, as will flying.
You can even munchkin madness with the Half-Elf and pursue the Elven Battle Torrent feats to get better mileage out of a high Intelligence score for more/better Bombs.
Elven Battle Torrent need BBA 10, that will only on 14 level
No. A Mutagen Warrior/Opportunist Fighter is BAB 10 @ Level 10...
No. A Mutagen Warrior/Opportunist Fighter is BAB 10 @ Level 10...
sorry, i thinked you talking about grenadier
Mutagen Warrior/Opportunist Fighter good oтly in melee. Grenadier hase better bomb progression and not mutagen discoveries. It havent another ways in combat
So, i created Grenadier dex Build
Half Orc(bonus to bomb damage)
Str 10
Dex 18
Con 14
Wis 12
Cha 7
1lvl Proficienty with Scimitar, Weapon Finesse
2lvl Discovery Tanglefoot Bomb
3lvl Piranha Strike
4lvl Discovery Spontaneous Healing
5lvl Weapon Focus Scimitar
6lvl Discovery Wings
7lvl Slashing Grace
8lvl Discovery Bone Spike Mutagen
9lvl Point Black shot
10lvl discovery Healing bomb
I think instead piranha strile i can take TWF and instead of some discovery take fast bombs
in this i have +12/+7 attack od scimitar deal d6+4 damage, and bomb attack +13 with 5d6+9 damage
Maybe you have a better build?
So there's a problem with your build
The Scimitar is not a finessable weapon. I know you think you fixed that with SLASHING GRACE but read it again - it gives DEX to damage, but not to attack rolls (you need a level in Swashbuckler to make it finessable). The easy fix is to instead take DERVISH DANCE instead.
The other part of that problem is that you left Slashing Grace (now Dervish Dance) till level 7. Because you need this feat to get DEX to hit you need to take it as soon as possible (level 3).
So there's a problem with your build
The Scimitar is not a finessable weapon. I know you think you fixed that with SLASHING GRACE but read it again - it gives DEX to damage, but not to attack rolls (you need a level in Swashbuckler to make it finessable). The easy fix is to instead take DERVISH DANCE instead.
The other part of that problem is that you left Slashing Grace (now Dervish Dance) till level 7. Because you need this feat to get DEX to hit you need to take it as soon as possible (level 3).
Ow, i donk knew about that, thanks. I want to make melee/bomber build
What weapon you can recommend to use?
Fighter will give proficiancy with all martial weapons and all armor2. You get nothing out of a Fighter level. Feats, you have plenty.
You can get that with feats.
Don't go DEX, that's a huge waste of your capabilities. Squanders the power of polymorph spells
What weapon you can recommend to use?
Well you can still use the scimitar, you just need Dervish Dance instead of Slashing Grace.
Level 1-2 you take weapon Finesse and use a dagger or something. You won't deal much damage, but you have bombs and extracts. You can flank/aid another to help other party members deal more damage if you don't think your damage is enough. You can even pick up a crossbow if you don't want to be on the front line.
Level 3 you take Dervish Dance and now you can use your DEX with the scimitar (to hit and damage).
PIRANHA STRIKE doesn't work with the scimitar still, so if you want that extra damage you'll need 13 STR for Power Attack.
I also just noticed you didn't have a listed INT skill, but I'm assuming 15-16 starting off.
Fighter will give proficiancy with all martial weapons and all armor2. You get nothing out of a Fighter level. Feats, you have plenty.
You can get that with feats.
Don't go DEX, that's a huge waste of your capabilities. Squanders the power of polymorph spells
Dex build high AC, but it feat expensive. For Srt I havemt good armor
Well you're spending two feats on getting DEX to hot/damage. You could spend those two feats on medium/heavy armour (alchemists don't have spell failure or anything).
Honestly The difference between DEX/STR builds isn't that big a deal most of the time. Do whatever fits your character concept better.
Well you're spending two feats on getting DEX to hot/damage. You could spend those two feats on medium/heavy armour (alchemists don't have spell failure or anything).
Honestly The difference between DEX/STR builds isn't that big a deal most of the time. Do whatever fits your character concept better.
Well, main idia is create a alchemist in armor, who can go in melee and throw bobms sometimes
Either way will work.
The DEX build probably has better skills and initiative. They'll also have a much better Touch AC, and ranged attacks will be more likely to hit.
The STR build will have much better flat-footed AC, but can do more with polymorph extracts to turn into monsters. They can also use bigger weapons and get more out of Power Attack, so they'll likely hit harder. While their ranged attacks won't hit as often, your main ranged option is Bombs - which target Touch AC - so this will stop being an issue pretty quickly.
I often find a picture that suits my character and base some of their choices off the picture. DO you envision your character walking around in full-plate or dancing around the battlefield in a chain-shirt (or somewhere in between)?
Either way will work.
The DEX build probably has better skills and initiative. They'll also have a much better Touch AC, and ranged attacks will be more likely to hit.
The STR build will have much better flat-footed AC, but can do more with polymorph extracts to turn into monsters. They can also use bigger weapons and get more out of Power Attack, so they'll likely hit harder. While their ranged attacks won't hit as often, your main ranged option is Bombs - which target Touch AC - so this will stop being an issue pretty quickly.
I often find a picture that suits my character and base some of their choices off the picture. DO you envision your character walking around in full-plate or dancing around the battlefield in a chain-shirt (or somewhere in between)?
Alchemist have 3/4 BBA and feats not on evry level,no Dex a little hard, but in this case dex have more profit