I posted this in a necroed thread, so I wanted to repost the basic points of it here for further discussion. My group is working on converting to 5e for the rest of Iron Gods from Valley of the Brain Collectors forward. Its a bit of a challenge trying to match the theme of each character as the classes and archetypes they picked are so tied into Pathfinder, but they are having fun in the attempt. My biggest concern is how to modify the NPCs and monsters as little as possible to decrease my workload. I experienced a bit of that challenge last week when I ran Crypt of the Everflame, and had to change the AC of the final boss based on how armor works in 5e. He was still two-shotted due to bludgeoning vulnerability, but he had the PCs worried after the tabaxi monk almost went down in one swipe of a longsword. Any tips on how to use what is written, and modify on the fly?
Some conversion items to consider:
1) Robot Hardness. Since there is no hardness mechanic for creatures in 5E, I will just replace it with Resistance to damage from bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing weapons that are not adamantine. I am not sure if that Resistance should extend to attacks with energy types. Robots are vulnerable to lightning damage.
2) Skill check modifiers. I need to figure out a way to adjust skill check modifiers for monsters. At a glance, I would just take 4 skills that the monster has and give them proficiency, but should the bonus depend on the HD of the creature?
3) NPCs with class levels are the most daunting to quick-convert. My detail-oriented brain wants to re-write them using 5E class abilities. My lazy DM brain says to just use them as written with minor tweaks based on 5E rules since NPCs don't necessarily have to follow PC rules.
That's what I have for now. Any comments or suggestions are welcome.
I do not know anything about 5e, but since Pathfinder hardness affects energy attacks I would think that Resistance should extend to to them in 5e also. That is why they gave robots hardness instead of DR.
1. Use as is.
2. Sounds good to me.
3. Use ready made conversions for mooks and minor villains. But any special NPCs I would either convert personally or use the stats provided and balance as you see.
Even when running using Path1e I would modify things on the fly to make them more challanging for my specific group of PCs.
I do not know anything about 5e, but since Pathfinder hardness affects energy attacks I would think that Resistance should extend to to them in 5e also. That is why they gave robots hardness instead of DR.
That's a good point, and something I forgot to mention in my previous post. Thanks!
1. Use as is.
2. Sounds good to me.
3. Use ready made conversions for mooks and minor villains. But any special NPCs I would either convert personally or use the stats provided and balance as you see.Even when running using Path1e I would modify things on the fly to make them more challanging for my specific group of PCs.
1. By use as is, do you mean the PF hardness mechanic, or 5e Resistance?
2. How would you determine the proficiency bonus? Is this something I can find in the Monster Manual?
3. What do you mean by "ready made conversions" for mooks and minor villains? The NPC index in the back of the Monster Manual?
1. I would just use hardness as per the pathfinder rules. If you find it to be unbalanced then cut the numbers down a bit.
2. I haven't looked in a while but somewhere there is a list of Prof Bonus by level/HD.
3. Generally use monsters that are appropriate level when you can as close as you can. The ready made NPCs are a good example. I'm sure somewhere online there is a 5e Character generator that can throw together some stats for you quickly. I personally like Fast Character and have even used this site to generate quick PCs for an ongoing Undermountain game.
1. I would just use hardness as per the pathfinder rules. If you find it to be unbalanced then cut the numbers down a bit.
2. I haven't looked in a while but somewhere there is a list of Prof Bonus by level/HD.
3. Generally use monsters that are appropriate level when you can as close as you can. The ready made NPCs are a good example. I'm sure somewhere online there is a 5e Character generator that can throw together some stats for you quickly. I personally like Fast Character and have even used this site to generate quick PCs for an ongoing Undermountain game.
Thanks for the tips. I need to check the DMG for that list you mentioned.
4) Skill check and saving throw DCs. A poster in another thread recommended adjusting DCs by dividing the PF DC by 2 and adding 4 in most cases. So far this has worked for most DCs.
5) PF classes without a 5e analog. The gunslinger and magus have been the most complicated to convert to 5e. I have found some class conversions in the Iron Gods forums as well as a gunslinger fighter subclass created by Matt Mercer from Critical Role on DMs Guild. This ties in to #3 above.
4. if it works for you thats great.
5. I'm pretty sure that 5e has gun rules in the DMG. I would just analog the classes to an NPC of your choosing with some pathfinder abilities for flavor. dont hesitate to make npcs with abilities the pcs cant have.
The firearm rules in the DMG say to follow the downtime rules for training in the PHB. They say that training to gain a proficiency takes 250 days and 1 gp per day. That seems a bit extreme, so I may rule that if someone in the party can train, it will reduce the time and cost.
Since PCs are special, I would essentially let them do it for like a weeks worth of downtime or training with someone who already knows how to use them.
You also may want to consider making Technology use/knowledge its own skill in some way?
Maybe do a quick conversion of the backgrounds in the players guide for Iron Gods.
I am using the conversion material by Badmudderfugger in their thread "Iron Gods come to conquer 5e!" Technologist is a sort of Meta-tool proficiency that I am allowing to replace any tool proficiency provided by any background. The spellslinger wizard is basically using the PF archetype as-is with minor tweaks, so he gets firearms proficiency as part of his arcane tradition. The Numerian scavenger rogue took the firearms feat, so we just fudged that he has proficiency. In the thread previously mentioned, the campaign traits were reimagined as background bonds.
How are you handling the Android NPCs?
How are you handling the Android NPCs?
As far as their racial traits, or converting their stat blocks? As for the former, I am also using Badmudderfugger's conversion notes. As for the latter, I am rewriting them as need be based on the availability of similar 5e classes.
This isn't specific to Iron Gods, but does anyone have a good 5E Summoner conversion? One of my former player's character is an aasimar Summoner, but he has been relegated to NPC status as the player moved to another state. For now, I have basically just replaced the Summon Monster spells at alternating levels with Eidolon Features, which are just the Eidolon-specific Pathfinder feats that Summoners can take. I also adjusted his Spells class feature to the Bard's spell progression as that is what the Summoner's is in Pathfinder. I include the Eidolon-specific Pathfinder spells as well as all Conjure _____ and Summon _______ spells from the PHB and Xanathar's Guide to Everything in the Summoner's spell list. I exclude any Pathfinder spell that doesn't have an official 5E version.
As an alternate plan, I may just recreate the Summoner as a Conjurer Wizard since the new 5E version of my campaign is essentially a reboot.
As an alternate plan, I may just recreate the Summoner as a Conjurer Wizard since the new 5E version of my campaign is essentially a reboot.
Conjurer Wizard is certainly the best way to go. If the character remains an NPC, just attach an "outsider" type to the character as a permanent follower.
May I ask a different question? Does D&D 5E have a way to gain a permanent follower?
As an alternate plan, I may just recreate the Summoner as a Conjurer Wizard since the new 5E version of my campaign is essentially a reboot.Conjurer Wizard is certainly the best way to go. If the character remains an NPC, just attach an "outsider" type to the character as a permanent follower.
May I ask a different question? Does D&D 5E have a way to gain a permanent follower?
To my knowledge, none of the classes have permanent followers like a summoner's eidolon, or spiritualist's phantom. However, the Hunter Ranger has an animal companion, and two of the Artificer subclasses have a homunculus and a steel defender as class features respectively. There are some third party guides for followers, like Matt Coville's Strongholds and Followers, but I have not read any of them.
To my knowledge, none of the classes have permanent followers like a summoner's eidolon, or spiritualist's phantom. However, the Hunter Ranger has an animal companion, and two of the Artificer subclasses have a homunculus and a steel defender as class features respectively. There are some third party guides for followers, like Matt Coville's Strongholds and Followers, but I have not read any of them.As an alternate plan, I may just recreate the Summoner as a Conjurer Wizard since the new 5E version of my campaign is essentially a reboot.Conjurer Wizard is certainly the best way to go. If the character remains an NPC, just attach an "outsider" type to the character as a permanent follower.
May I ask a different question? Does D&D 5E have a way to gain a permanent follower?
Alas, then there is no way for a player to "fake" a PF1E style Summoner in D&D 5E. :(
Alas, then there is no way for a player to "fake" a PF1E style Summoner in D&D 5E. :(To my knowledge, none of the classes have permanent followers like a summoner's eidolon, or spiritualist's phantom. However, the Hunter Ranger has an animal companion, and two of the Artificer subclasses have a homunculus and a steel defender as class features respectively. There are some third party guides for followers, like Matt Coville's Strongholds and Followers, but I have not read any of them.As an alternate plan, I may just recreate the Summoner as a Conjurer Wizard since the new 5E version of my campaign is essentially a reboot.Conjurer Wizard is certainly the best way to go. If the character remains an NPC, just attach an "outsider" type to the character as a permanent follower.
May I ask a different question? Does D&D 5E have a way to gain a permanent follower?
There are a few homebrews on the DMs Guild website for pay-what-you-want. I haven't bought any to peruse since he's an NPC now. I will just 5e-ify him as above if he needs to interact with the PCs. If needed, I prescribe to the idea that NPCs are able to have abilities that the PCs can't.
The DM's Guild Summoner homebrew has piqued my interest, so I paid and downloaded it. Aside from some confusion about spells per level, it reads pretty decently. I think its a 5e version of the Unchained Summoner, and the now NPC summoner was the original version. However, it fits the feel of the Pathfinder class, so I believe I will use it for the time being.
One of the things about 5e I find a little annoying, is that I don't understand NPC design in adventure modules. None of them have character classes, and I can't find than minimal design rules in the DMG. When I design an NPC that the PCs will interact and/or fight against or with, I use the full character creation rules in the PHB. Could someone shine a light on how characters are designed in adventures? I know this doesn't apply directly to Iron Gods, but this has come up as I make 5e updates to the AP.
One of the things about 5e I find a little annoying, is that I don't understand NPC design in adventure modules. None of them have character classes, and I can't find than minimal design rules in the DMG. When I design an NPC that the PCs will interact and/or fight against or with, I use the full character creation rules in the PHB. Could someone shine a light on how characters are designed in adventures? I know this doesn't apply directly to Iron Gods, but this has come up as I make 5e updates to the AP.
Does it use a system like PF 2E's monster design?
Does it use a system like PF 2E's monster design?
That I don't know because I haven't read any PF2E.
The Pathfinder PCs and their 5e conversions or reboots are:
Peter "Astro Baron" Quill - formerly a human Numerian scavenger rogue, now a variant human swashbuckler rogue
Rocco - formerly and still a goblin spellslinger wizard (with minor adjustments to fit 5e)
Grit - formerly a ghoran brawler, now a reskinned warforged battle master fighter
Lox - formerly an aasimar hedge witch, now a protector aasimar tome pact celestial patron warlock.
Conversions are not complete as yet, but we have a little while before my campaign resumes. The biggest issues have been background alterations based on Badmudderfugger's write-up.
The 5 PCs concluded The Choking Tower at 9th level. I now have 4 PCs, and the suggested level to begin Valley of the Brain Collectors is 10th. Now that we are converting to 5e, I wonder if they are underpowered for the trials ahead. My hope is that they undertake the Black Beacon side quest provided at the end of Choking Tower (which is CR 9) in order to advance to 10th level. However, if they don't, I may have to reduce the difficulty level of the first bit of VotBC.
This week I have been working on converting the Engine Attendant and the mi-go cleric to 5e. Basically I'm writing the NPCs on 5e character sheets, and adjusting their class abilities as needed. Their monster abilities will be tweaked to be in line with 5e rules. The mi-go cleric has the Dark Tapestry subdomain of the Void domain, and the Plant domain, so I think I will just give him the Nature domain and call it a day. The Engine Attendant has levels in sorcerer, so I will have to find an appropriate substitution for his bloodline. I am away from my books at the moment, so I will post again after I have read the stat block and found a Sorcerous Origin that fits.
The Engine Attendant will use the Aberrant Mind Sorcerous Origin as there is not an analog for the Void-Touched bloodline.
Paajgat the Flayer will be a 5th level Death Domain cleric of Zon-Kuthon. Currently entering the pertinent information on a character sheet and spell sheet.
How did you choose 5E domains for Golarion deities?
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How did you choose 5E domains for Golarion deities?
I found Zon-Kuthon's domains in the Pathfinder Core Rulebook, and one of them is Death, so I just used the Death Domain in the DMG. Its the only one that has a 5e analog, aside from Law which would be Order in 5e. The others are Darkness, Destruction, and Evil. The mi-go cleric follows Shub-Niggurath that has the Animal, Chaos, Evil, Plant, and Void domains, so I just chose Nature for Animal and Plant.
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Most deities in 5e only have one or two domains now, though upon looking at the pantheon, some may have up to 3. For example:
Erastil - Animal, Community, Good, Law, Plant converts to Nature and Order (There are no analogs for Community or Good.)
Nethys - Magic converts to Arcana
Urgathoa - Death, Evil, Magic, Strenth, War converts to Death, Arcana, and War (There are no analogs for Evil or Strength)
Alas, then there is no way for a player to "fake" a PF1E style Summoner in D&D 5E. :(To my knowledge, none of the classes have permanent followers like a summoner's eidolon, or spiritualist's phantom. However, the Hunter Ranger has an animal companion, and two of the Artificer subclasses have a homunculus and a steel defender as class features respectively. There are some third party guides for followers, like Matt Coville's Strongholds and Followers, but I have not read any of them.As an alternate plan, I may just recreate the Summoner as a Conjurer Wizard since the new 5E version of my campaign is essentially a reboot.Conjurer Wizard is certainly the best way to go. If the character remains an NPC, just attach an "outsider" type to the character as a permanent follower.
May I ask a different question? Does D&D 5E have a way to gain a permanent follower?
Not sure if this matters now, but its not the Hunter Ranger that has the animal companion, its the Beast Master Ranger.
Today I'm trying to convert the chaos beasts of Shub-Niggurath. They're clerics, but the entry in Valley of the Brain Collectors doesn't have their cleric level listed. CR is 9th, and it says they're 9th level casters, but a chaos beast is CR 7. I don't own the Monster Codex, but Archives of Nethys only has the monster cleric template, and doesn't show an entry for chaos beast clerics.
Approximating CR of monsters with class levels is tricky.
This would suggest that a chaos beast should get +5 CR from 9 cleric levels. I would categorize them as combat role monsters, so from cleric levels 1-8 they should get +4 CR and from level 9 +1 CR. So CR 12 if following the guideline. Have you checked if they have added the BAB and feats of 9th level cleric? What is their highest spell level?
Approximating CR of monsters with class levels is tricky.
This would suggest that a chaos beast should get +5 CR from 9 cleric levels. I would categorize them as combat role monsters, so from cleric levels 1-8 they should get +4 CR and from level 9 +1 CR. So CR 12 if following the guideline. Have you checked if they have added the BAB and feats of 9th level cleric? What is their highest spell level?
Chaos beasts are 9 HD monsters, so I think that's where their CL comes from. The entry in the module shows they have 85 hp, which is what the Bestiary 2 (AoN) entry says as well. They only have 1 3rd, 2 2nd, and 2 1st level spells prepared in the module. I may just add the features of a 5th level 5e cleric to a chaos beast from PF and adjust as needed. There is no chaos beast in 5e that I am aware of.
Ah, they probably have the cleric creature template which at HD 9 gives the spells they have in the module.
Ah, they probably have the cleric creature template which at HD 9 gives the spells they have in the module.
That looks to be it. Thanks for the investigative work! I will probably proceed with a 5e-ified chaos beast with 5 levels of Nature domain cleric tacked on. As previously mentioned, Shub-Niggurath has animal and plant which translate to Nature. Its other domains are not found in 5e.
I converted Maukui the intellect devourer from an 8th level Destined bloodline sorcerer to a Psionic Soul sorcerer from Unearthed Arcana. I kept the ability scores from the Pathfinder stat block, but used the 5e Monster Manual version for everything else. If the Psionic Soul sorcerous origin is updated and made official in the new Tasha's Cauldron of Everything due out in November, I will update the character sheet accordingly. I haven't converted Maukui's void dragon host yet, but I will probably do so this weekend.
I'm currently reviewing the Unearthed Arcana article Modern Magic to see if any of the options listed would fit into an Iron Gods campaign. There are three classes: the City Domain cleric, Ghost in the Machine Otherworldly Patron for Warlocks, and Technomancy Arcane Tradition for Wizards. There are also modern/tech-related spells.
I started working on major NPCs from Palace of Fallen Stars lately. So far Doc Hellbroth is an alchemist artificer. Baron Kronseig Drund is a thief rogue with the Numerian Scavenger archetype features subbed in for Expertise at 1st and 6th, and Uncanny Dodge at 5th. It worked better as alternate Rogue features rather than its own subclass. Now I'm working on The Shade who is a Bard/Technomancer. The Technomancy Arcane Tradition in Modern Magic doesn't really fit well as the Technomancer PF prestige class deals with using timeworn tech without glitches (for the most part), while Technomancy AT fits better in modern settings, not just in settings with modern/advanced tech. I'm looking at Lore Bard or possibly Swords Bard so she can gain benefits to her monowhip fighting.
I made some adjustments to the Engine Attendant and Maukui. The EA is now a Shadow Magic sorcerer which fits it's former Starsoul/Void-Touched bloodline better than Aberrant Mind. Maukui is now an Aberrant Mind sorcerer, but updated to the final version in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything. None of the available Sorcerous Origins fit the Destined Bloodline. Both creatures were updated with the additional Sorcerer class features.
Some conversion items to consider:
2) Skill check modifiers. I need to figure out a way to adjust skill check modifiers for monsters. At a glance, I would just take 4 skills that the monster has and give them proficiency, but should the bonus depend on the HD of the creature?
That's what I have for now. Any comments or suggestions are welcome.
Monster Manual page 8, it is based on CR, not HD. It seems to correspond to the PC level proficiency chart going from +2 to +6 for CRs 0 to 20 and extending up to +9 for CR 30.
Monster Manual page 8, it is based on CR, not HD. It seems to correspond to the PC level proficiency chart going from +2 to +6 for CRs 0 to 20 and extending up to +9 for CR 30.Some conversion items to consider:
2) Skill check modifiers. I need to figure out a way to adjust skill check modifiers for monsters. At a glance, I would just take 4 skills that the monster has and give them proficiency, but should the bonus depend on the HD of the creature?
That's what I have for now. Any comments or suggestions are welcome.
Thanks for the info!
Currently working on converting Ghartone in Palace of Fallen Stars. I have decided that all technomancer levels will be Artificer and whichever subclass best fits the character. Ghartone will now be an Artificer (Alchemist) 8/Wizard 5, but I don't know what wizard school he is. The stat block doesn't indicate which one, as far as I can tell. Anyone have an idea?
Currently working on converting Ghartone in Palace of Fallen Stars. I have decided that all technomancer levels will be Artificer and whichever subclass best fits the character. Ghartone will now be an Artificer (Alchemist) 8/Wizard 5, but I don't know what wizard school he is. The stat block doesn't indicate which one, as far as I can tell. Anyone have an idea?
I think I will make him a Transmuter as it fits the alchemist theme, and call it a day.
Currently working on converting Ghartone in Palace of Fallen Stars. I have decided that all technomancer levels will be Artificer and whichever subclass best fits the character. Ghartone will now be an Artificer (Alchemist) 8/Wizard 5, but I don't know what wizard school he is. The stat block doesn't indicate which one, as far as I can tell. Anyone have an idea?I think I will make him a Transmuter as it fits the alchemist theme, and call it a day.
Ghartone is a Universalist wizard based on his Hand of the Apprentice class feature.
I just completed converting the Black Seers from Bones Mystery Oracles to Divine Soul Sorcerers. The cool thing about that subclass is that they get to use cleric spells or sorcerer spells for their spells known. I had some trouble picking alternate magic items, and had to homebrew a light pick from a light hammer as they are devoted to Zyphus and that is his favored weapon.
Side note: in my 5e campaigns, I give clerics the weapon proficiency of their deity's favored weapon.
Wasn't that in 3E already? Did they drop it for 5e?