Investigator Thoughts

[EberronHoward]

Level One

- I really liked having the Investigator in the game. I enjoy those crunch options that helped facilitate mystery solving. As such, I was a big fan of the PC, and was fair to him when he wanted to use his class features and feats. However, I think the efficacy of the class will vary on how willing the GM is to let feats like 'On the Scene' work as is. From my experience, some GMs think withholding information makes the game better, even if a PC is built to find information.

If I wanted to play an Investigator, I would talk to the GM to gauge how okay they are with the class making mystery-solving easier, because I feel a miscommunication of how the GM runs their game might make the class useless. Having a section in the class write-up talking directly to GMs about running a game with them would help the Investigator be GMed more fairly.

- The Investigator started with 12 INT and 16 WIS. He was very pleased in having a large Perception bonus, and didn't mind having a lower INT, since he was still able to have all the necessary skills for Recall Knowledge.

- Study Suspect was very annoying. Sometimes it didn't work, and it really discouraged the Investigator from attacking that round. I get the possible thrill of critically succeeding and getting all of your attacks get the bonus, but it felt far worse to not get access to the extra damage at all. Even limiting it to one attempt per turn was frustrating: the Investigator said multiple times that he would've tried a second time after failing, because getting a damage bonus with 1 attack was a better proposition than 2 attacks with middling damage.

- I was okay with Take the Case, and was flexible in what the Investigator could target. I allowed the Oracle to get a bonus to pushing the wagon out of the ditch from the Investigator's Clue In, in the logic that the 'case' was 'how to get the wagon out' and part of the investigation was 'trying to push it'. I also allowed the Investigator to give the 'Clue In' bonus after the ally already failed, which I think is not how it is supposed to work. However, it felt like it was much more relevant to give it to an ally who failed and needed that +1.

- I'm not entirely sure why the Investigator has both 'Take the Case' and 'Study Suspect'. They feel very similar to each other. Perhaps the reason that they are separate is that the designers wanted 'Take the Case' to take 1 minute to resolve, and wanted 'Study Suspect' to resolve in one action. I wouldn't mind having these two features rolled into one feature. Maybe make its activation take 1 minute out of combat, and 1 action in combat.

- The Forensic Investigator was an excellent party healer. The Oracle got critically hit by the Lightning Serpent and the Swashbucker critically failed against that monster's lightning attack, but the Investigator's use of Battle Medicine brought them both back to full HP.

- On the Scene felt like it should be a Class feature. The Investigator's player quickly started using it as a 'Spider-sense' for ambush encounters (relevant in 'Fall of Plaguestone'), and was useful in speeding up when the party should look closer in a particular area or not. I imagine that many PCs multi-classing into Investigator, especially those with low Perception, will take that feat.

- The Investigator player was very creative using Flexible Studies. He started the module off with 'Caravan Lore' (to help with the caravan and to better know his situation). When he started the investigation in Etran's Folly, he took 'Etran's Folly Lore' to have a better understanding of the town. I imagine that if the Investigator has a particular person he wants to investigate, he'll choose '(That person's name) Lore'.

- Watching the Investigator do its thing, I felt that the class would be a great DM NPC. A NPC investigator could recall knowledge of any sort (especially with Flexible Studies), use Battle Medicine to heal the PCs, and hand out skill bonuses freely. And their lack of combat power means that they'll rarely take the spotlight during combat: my experience is that they're far better in assisting allies and performing in-game skill checks.

What's more, the Investigator's abilities didn't automatically solve the mystery, and remove the fun of mystery solving for the players. In the game, the party still got some wrong assumptions based on the Investigator's clues, despite the facts learnt all being true. It still required the players asking the right questions.

[Aswaarg]

First of all, thank you for the write up, it´s really good to read this, becuase I haven´t been able to play with the Playtest and I´m intrigued about them.

I´m worried about "Take the Case" because it´s a cool idea, but it´s implementation is weird. It says tipically the subject is a single creature, item or small location. How you determined something was a good subject for the investigation? Did the player switched often in the same scene the topic of the subject?

Also the aplication of the +1 circumstance bonus should be used to "investigate" the subject, not for actions that are not related to the investigation.

Whenever you attempt a check to investigate your subject, you gain a +1 circumstance bonus on the check.

It says typically apply to Perception, Int, Wis or Cha skills. As I understand, you can´t use this bonus to get a +1 to checks not related with geting info about the subject. I understand you aplied it more freely. Do you think it´s better that way? Did the player used the bonus a lot?

The same happens with "Clue In", you can only give the +1 to checks realted to investigate the subject of the case, this limits a lot the kind of checks that other players can do (usually are teh same checks in wich the Investigator is good at).

[N N 959]

EberronHoward wrote:

- Study Suspect was very annoying. Sometimes it didn't work, and it really discouraged the Investigator from attacking that round. I get the possible thrill of critically succeeding and getting all of your attacks get the bonus, but it felt far worse to not get access to the extra damage at all. Even limiting it to one attempt per turn was frustrating: the Investigator said multiple times that he would've tried a second time after failing, because getting a damage bonus with 1 attack was a better proposition than 2 attacks with middling damage.

Just to clarify, you were the GM, not the player?

Also, do you remember the stats for the Investigator?

[EberronHoward]

I was the GM. Investigator had 12 INT, 16 WIS, 16 DEX.

And I was generous with the Investigator taking 11 minutes to switch it up when time wasn't a concern (which really wasn't an issue in the adventure so far). I didn't put a value on what constituted a 'real' case other than it fit the RAW. If a check might help 'solve' the case, I allowed it. I didn't want them to start asking me for what were 'the right skills' to use, because I felt that would result in me telling them what the mystery is.

[N N 959]

Okay, thanks for the info. I created a spreadsheet that looks at the probability of getting extra damage from Study Subject + Studied Strike versus a given NPC Will and Armor Class.

I looked at a creature with a Will save of +5 and an AC of 15. A 1st level Investigator with a 16 DEX/WIS Investigator should be getting bonus damage from Studied Strike 46% of the time.

I'd be curious to see if my spreadsheets reflects the in-game occurrences. Perhaps you could share Will save and Armor class for some of the more memorable battles and then I can see if the odds match what it felt like in game.

Please don't share the names of the creatures as I wouldn't want to spoil any of the encounters.

[Elmdorprime]

I'm going to be running an Investigator with maxed Int through Plaguestone starting Friday, I'm going to be interested in how it plays and keeping a record of Int vs. (Theoretical) Wis results on Studied Strike. Truly anecdotal data at its finest. Has anyone run an Int Investigator?

Granted my stats aren't going to be ideal for using Study Subject but I'm going to try Alchemical Sciences as the methodology to use the Eagle Eye Elixir to help make that up a bit.

[vagrant-poet]

Elmdorprime wrote:

I'm going to be running an Investigator with maxed Int through Plaguestone starting Friday, I'm going to be interested in how it plays and keeping a record of Int vs. (Theoretical) Wis results on Studied Strike. Truly anecdotal data at its finest. Has anyone run an Int Investigator?

Granted my stats aren't going to be ideal for using Study Subject but I'm going to try Alchemical Sciences as the methodology to use the Eagle Eye Elixir to help make that up a bit.

Had a game with a 16 int, 16 wis Investigator. Hope it goes well for you.

[N N 959]

Elmdorprime wrote:

Granted my stats aren't going to be ideal for using Study Subject but I'm going to try Alchemical Sciences as the methodology to use the Eagle Eye Elixir to help make that up a bit.

Based on my calcs, your accuracy will have more impact on you leveraging Studied Strike than your Wisdom. Every point of accuracy is worth 150% of a Wisdom modifier increase.