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I mean, it was a preview. Paizo admitted they didn't have time to make changes before the books hit the press.It's by no means perfect, but still a very solid game. The APG "playtest" materials were sadly not very encouraging - both the Witch and Oracle are in my experience very disappointing.Why the scare quotes? Are you implying it somehow isn't a real playtest?
I’m pretty sure this is the opposite of what they’ve said...
(If you look at the play test pages, for example, you’ll see the developers explicitly acknowledging criticisms, and in some cases stating that they’ll be making changes in light of those worries.)
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Yup. They stated they wouldn't be putting out an updated playtest document, not that they wouldn't be changing the classes.
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TL;DR: It wasn't a playtest, it was a preview.
I think you're referring to this post in a thread where the OP posed this question
My question is this - will there be a 2nd version of rules to playtest?
Notice that the question is about a second round of playtesting
So...
There will not be another round of play testing. We are getting a lot of great data from the Surveys that is going to allow us to refine these classes for the final version of the book.
(My bold)
They're using the surveys and other feedback to make changes to the rules. But they aren't going to do it a 2nd time.
No matter what you believe, this was a real playtest, with feedback mechanisms that allow detailed responses. Staff are using that feedback to make changes.
Not a preview. A testing of and making adjustments to the rules for the classes in the Advance Players Guide.
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It's by no means perfect, but still a very solid game. The APG "playtest" materials were sadly not very encouraging - both the Witch and Oracle are in my experience very disappointing.Why the scare quotes? Are you implying it somehow isn't a real playtest?I mean, it was a preview. Paizo admitted they didn't have time to make changes before the books hit the press. Mostly it's been an effort to draw attention and build hype for the product. They said they'd apply any feedback to future releases, but that's kind of silly. It's been an ongoing problem where they don't have time to adjust before printing. But it's not their fault, they're fighting an uphill battle and time is not on their side, so they don't have the luxury a 5 year playtest like 5e did. I expect this to be the future of Paizo publications, and I'm concerned that they're flying blind as their player base continues to dry up and either stick with PF1e or leave for other systems like 5e. But they have to publish at breakneck speed to keep the doors open, now more than ever. Don't get me wrong, I want 2e to be successful, even if I don't like the system (and I do like it). I'd be glad to be proven wrong, but only time will tell.
TL;DR: It wasn't a playtest, it was a preview.
But mostly I keep scare quotes to keep the comma crows out of my punctuation patch. :)
Yeah, that's untrue, I've been participating pretty extensively in the playtest over on the Witch sub-forum, we have designers commenting on threads concerning major overhauls to the class to effects of "we're discussing how to achieve this."
One thread is about converting the Witch to a single spell list and implementing a bonus spell mechanic, another is about overhauling cackle and replacing it with an enhanced coven mechanic, yet another thread is about making the familiar less easily murdered since it's the witches spellbook, and one seems to mainly be discussion about major mechanical additions to make patrons feel more impactful, yet another thread was about Divine Witches (this one got too heated) and how they should or shouldn't be included.
Lyz Liddell has commented on all of the threads that they're considering making changes based off the feedback.
We've heard similarly back about dissatisfaction with Oracle's Curse Mechanic and Flavor.
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...
And the patron thread, they responded saying that they will look into making patrons more mechanically and specifically impactful.
I mean, it was a preview. Paizo admitted they didn't have time to make changes before the books hit the press.It's by no means perfect, but still a very solid game. The APG "playtest" materials were sadly not very encouraging - both the Witch and Oracle are in my experience very disappointing.Why the scare quotes? Are you implying it somehow isn't a real playtest?I’m pretty sure this is the opposite of what they’ve said...
(If you look at the play test pages, for example, you’ll see the developers explicitly acknowledging criticisms, and in some cases stating that they’ll be making changes in light of those worries.)
Well, I stand happily corrected. My concerns remain but I'm at least somewhat reassured that Paizo is taking the time to pivot based on feedback.
I'm of two minds on pathfinder2e.
on one hand i find it MUCH easier to GM for. a lot of the garbage rules that were more complicated than needed have been removed, and there are very easy rules to make almost anything very quickly.
however, after my initial excitement of seeing how things are different from 1e, i've become less excited about actually playing it personally. Classes all have the felling they've been set up to end up doing about the same but in a slightly different way. like each melee class as an example, feels all even, except at the one thing their class ability alters.(fighter has better accuracy, barbarian, better damage, and ranger better reliability/adaptability)
it's a fun game, but in that it's easy and quick to play, and nothing is likely to upset the gameplay. like besides being a charisma class, it's hard to make a character good at lying, at least more than anyone else can be. glibness is a +4 from a +20(it was favorite spell ;-;)
idk, it's a fun game, but i think i'd prefer to play 1e as a player.
I think some of the semi sameness is not having a decade of other options layered ontop of the chassis. The spell changes to the skill monkey stuff was very much intentional in that they did not want to recreate just let the wizard do it as the answer for every question.