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Powerful Touch (1 action):
If the next action you take is a touch spell with an attack roll, add your Strength modifier to the damage. The damage is the same type as your unarmed attack.
There are spells with range touch, but there are not touch attack spells any more. All such spells now use a spell attack roll instead. There also isn't any base attack bonus any more. Finally, attack damage scales differently in this edition, so adding on full damage for a natural attack to a touch range spell for no extra actions would be way too strong, effectively giving you 3 actions in 2 and also removing the multiple attack penalty you would usually face.
You could make it cost (spell action cost) +1, and remove the MAP though, and that would be balanced, though it goes against the 2nd edition design goals of not having you stand next to a person attacking for a full turn as your regular shtick.
Edit: after rereading, are you asking for D&D 3.5 homebrew advice on the Pathfinder 2nd edition boards?
My background is 3.5 but I'm currently converting to P2 so some of my vocabulary and knowledge is out of date. Sorry.
I'm currently working on converting a 3.5 Dread Necromancer to P2 and their Charnel Touch is a touch attack. But if you use something that has a natural attack I can't see why they couldn't have the Charnel Touch damage add to one of their natural attacks.
Ok, gotcha. Welcome to the boards! :) I've found this online for the Dread Necromancer Charnel Touch ability:
Charnel Touch (Su): Negative energy flows through a dread necromancer's body, concentrating in her hands. At will, but no more than once per round, she can make a melee touch attack against a living foe that deals 1d8 points of damage, +1 per four class levels. This touch heals undead creatures, restoring 1 hit point per touch, +1 per four class levels. A dread necromancer can use the spectral hand spell to deliver this attack from a distance.
So they get a touch attack they can use at will, and deliver from range. That sounds a lot like the Harm spell, so let's look at that:
HARM
SPELL 1
NECROMANCY
NEGATIVETraditions divine
Cast to
Range varies; Targets 1 living creature or 1 willing undead creature
You channel negative energy to harm the living or heal the undead. If the target is a living creature, you deal 1d8 negative damage to it, and it gets a basic Fortitude save. If the target is a willing undead creature, you restore that amount of Hit Points. The number of actions you spend when Casting this Spell determines its targets, range, area, and other parameters.
1 action: (somatic) The spell has a range of touch.
2 actions: (verbal, somatic) The spell has a range of 30 feet. If you’re healing an undead creature, increase the Hit Points restored by 8.
3 actions: (material, verbal, somatic) You disperse negative energy in a 30-foot emanation. This targets all living and undead creatures in the area.
Heightened (+1) The amount of healing or damage increases by 1d8, and the extra healing for the 2-action version increases by 8.
I think we could do something similar for Charnel Touch, where you can spend 2 actions to attack at range. That will accomplish the "spectral hand" part of it. It can look something like this:
===
Charnel Touch - 1 to 2 actions
Traits: Dread Necromancer, Necromancy, Negative, Attack
Targets: 1 living creature or 1 willing undead creature
Negative energy flows through your body, concentrating in your hands. If the target is a living creature, you make a spell attack roll against the target. This does negative damage equal to 1d6 plus your spellcasting modifier. If the target is a willing undead creature, you restore that amount of hit points. The number of actions you spend when using Charnel Touch determines its target and range.
1 action - The spell has a range of touch.
2 actions - The spell has a range of 30 feet.
As your Dread Necromancer level increases, so does the number of damage dice for your Charnel Touch. Increase the number of dice by one at 5th, 11th, and 17th levels.
===
I changed the die to 1d6 for a few reasons.
1. It shouldn't be as strong as Harm, since it can be used at-will instead of a limited number per day.
2. At 1d6 it's still stronger than the very similar cantrip Chill Touch. At least until Chill Touch scales higher with character level.
3. I've given it better scaling than before. This matches the scaling of the rogue's sneak attack dice.
For comparison it does the same amount of damage as sneak attack but doesn't include weapon damage (but does include primary stat), multiplies on crit, the target doesn't need to be flat-footed, it bypasses physical resistance, can be used to heal undead minions, and can be turned into a ranged attack. So it is still very strong.
Now that we have Charnel Touch, we can make the feat to channel it through a natural attack.
===
Charnel Strike - 2 to 3 actions
Dread Necromancer Feat 1
Traits: Dread Necromancer, Necromancy, Negative, Flourish
You empower your attack with your charnel energy, suffusing the attack with negative power. Make a Strike. If your Strike is melee, Charnel Strike costs 2 actions, and if your Strike is ranged, it costs 3 actions. The Strike deals both Strike damage and your Charnel Touch damage. This counts as two attacks when calculating your multiple attack penalty.
===
There you go! It can be channeled through a natural attack or through any other weapon. Hope this helps you. :)
Very nice. And I like that feat. Even if it ends up not working with this particular case it could be something to look at for other touch attacks. Thank you.
I have the P2 Core Book but not the Bestiary yet. I didn't have enough to get both at Gencon this year. Is Lich in P2?
Charnel Touch is the same as the touch attack that Lich's had in 3.5. And they could add that touch attack damage to a natural attack damage for one attack per round. I'm just wondering if they have something like that for P2.
Yes, Lich is in. https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=282
Hand of the Lich All liches have a hand unarmed attack that deals 1d8 negative damage for every 3 levels and in icts a paralyzing touch. This attack has the finesse trait. (i.e. use Dex to-hit).
A creature damaged by the lich’s hand Strike must succeed at a Fortitude save against the lich’s spell DC – 4. The creature becomes paralyzed for 1 round on a failure. On a critical failure, the creature is paralyzed permanently, falls prone, and seems dead. A DC 25 Medicine check reveals the victim is alive.
The only thing that I kind of found strange, but I expect that they did it for simplification, is how if the attack roll missed the regular AC but made the touch AC the touch attack still missed too.
There is no Touch AC anymore.
The only thing that I kind of found strange, but I expect that they did it for simplification, is how if the attack roll missed the regular AC but made the touch AC the touch attack still missed too.There is no Touch AC anymore.
To most touch spells it is a buff in disguise. Now you either make an attack roll (shocking grasp) or they make a save (chilling touch) , but not usually both. So many spells that before required both have a higher rate of success now. Add in the minor effect on successful save many have and the chance of crit for the ones with attacks and its looking good for touch spells.
I can see that. I have used it myself in as a Rogue/Warlock to devastating effect.
Is there anything in the Damage description of the Lich that resembles this?
"Damage: A lich without natural weapons has a touch attack that uses negative energy to deal 1d8+5 points of damage to living creatures; a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 lich's HD + lich's Cha modifier) halves the damage. A lich with natural weaponary, as it prefers. If it chooses the latter, it deals 1d8+5 points of extra damage on one natural weapon attack."
Particularly the last part that adds the negative energy damage to one natural attack.
And once again thanks for the info.
There is no "natrual attack" anymore. Monsters don't have feats either.
Just
hand +24 (finesse, magical), Damage 4d8 negative plus paralyzing touch.
Perhaps you want to look at the monk's ki strike. Note that monk's can only do that once, then need to rest 10 minutes to recharge it.
You focus your ki into magical attacks. Make an unarmed Strike or Flurry of Blows (this doesn't change the limit on using only one flourish per turn). You gain a +1 status bonus to your attack rolls with the Strikes, and the Strikes deal 1d6 extra damage. This damage can be any of the following types of your choice, chosen each time you Strike: force, lawful (only if you're lawful), negative, or positive.
Once again thanks for the info. I guess I need to take more time studying P2 before trying to convert.
Try looking at it with fresh eyes and throwing out any assumptions that you have from previous editions.