Multiclass Brawler, brawler's Flurry question

[WabbitHuntr]

Brawler 2/ Fighter 5

Using

weapon Adept:

Weapon Adept (Combat)

You are skilled at using customized weaponry.

Benefit: Choose a weapon modification (such as jagged hooks). You treat weapons with that modification as being of their normal category (simple, martial, or exotic).

Normal: A modified weapon is treated as one category more difficult to wield.

Special: You can gain this feat multiple times, choosing a different weapon modification each time.

To apply

versatile design:

Versatile Design

Price +500 gp; Weight —

A weapon with the versatile design modification is easier to wield for those skilled with other weapon groups. When versatile design is added to a weapon, choose a fighter weapon group. The modified weapon is considered to be a weapon of that weapon group (such as for the fighter’s weapon training class feature). A melee weapon cannot be considered part of a weapon group for ranged weapons, and vice versa.

To my Long sword making it count as a Close weapon for the purpose of

brawler's Flurry:

Brawler’s Flurry (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a brawler can make a brawler’s flurry as a full-attack action. When doing so, a brawler has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat when attacking with any combination of unarmed strikes, weapons from the close fighter weapon group, or weapons with the “monk” special feature. She does not need to use two different weapons to use this ability.

A brawler applies her full Strength modifier to her damage rolls for all attacks made with brawler’s flurry, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand weapon or a weapon wielded in both hands. A brawler can substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of brawler’s flurry. A brawler with natural weapons can’t use such weapons as part of brawler’s flurry, nor can she make natural weapon attacks in addition to her brawler’s flurry attacks.

At 8th level, the brawler gains use of the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat when using brawler’s flurry. At 15th level, she gains use of the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat when using brawler’s flurry.

When this character takes

improved two weapon fighting:

Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (Combat)

You are skilled at fighting with two weapons.

Prerequisites: Dex 17, Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: In addition to the standard single extra attack you get with an off-hand weapon, you get a second attack with it, albeit at a –5 penalty.

Normal: Without this feat, you can only get a single extra attack with an off-hand weapon.

AND fights with long sword and shield

Am I correct that his first extra TWF can be either with his sword or shield and if he is using the sword as his primary weapon the extra attack from ITWF must be made with his shield?

Bab+7

+5 sword
+5 sword or shield (brawler's Flurry/twf)
+0 sword
+0 shield (ITWF)

[RAWmonger]

Both TWF "off-hand" attacks (TWF and Improved TWF) can be with either weapon. Even though you didn't get Improved TWF via Brawler's Flurry, you are still using Improved TWF *during* the Brawler's Flurry Full-Attack Action. And when you use the Brawler's Flurry Full-Attack Action... "She does not need to use two different weapons to use this ability."

So taking Improved TWF is modifying the Brawler's Flurry Full-Attack Action, it is not a separate off-hand attack outside of the scope of Brawler's Flurry.

[Lelomenia]

I’ve seen it posted that the offhand flurry attacks still must be light weapons to avoid the extra -2 penalty.

[RAWmonger]

Lelomenia wrote:

I’ve seen it posted that the offhand flurry attacks still must be light weapons to avoid the extra -2 penalty.

As written that appears to be correct. I'd never rule it that way, but it appears that the writing works out that way.

EDIT: Although that may be intended for Brawler's Flurry, since most (maybe every, i'm not going to check) of the close weapons are light weapons. And light weapons generally have lower dice than one-handed or two-handed, as a way to lessen the potential impact of using Brawler's Flurry with larger weapons... something to think about.

[WabbitHuntr]

Lelomenia wrote:

I’ve seen it posted that the offhand flurry attacks still must be light weapons to avoid the extra -2 penalty.

Using the longsword +weapon Adept as the primary and a light shield would avoid any penalty other than the normal -2 for twf... Is that correct?

[RAWmonger]

As long as all of your off-hand attacks are with a light weapon you would avoid the penalty, yes. Though bring it up with your GM for using exclusively the long sword. You definitely can make every attack with the longsword during the brawler's flurry, but you might take that additional -2 for it not being light if you do. It's a sort of corner case, and your GM might be nice!

[Wonderstell]

RAWmonger wrote:

EDIT: Although that may be intended for Brawler's Flurry, since most (maybe every, i'm not going to check) of the close weapons are light weapons. And light weapons generally have lower dice than one-handed or two-handed, as a way to lessen the potential impact of using Brawler's Flurry with larger weapons... something to think about.

Then again, the description of Brawler's Flurry has rules for what happens to the strength bonus if you hold a weapon with two hands, which is only a concern if you use one-handed or two-handed. And since you can also Flurry with Monk weapons, there's plenty of bigger weapons available.

CMonk's Flurry also works as TWF, but I've never seen anyone argue that you'd take a -4 Penalty to attack when using a Temple Sword.

[Lelomenia]

Wonderstell wrote:

RAWmonger wrote:

EDIT: Although that may be intended for Brawler's Flurry, since most (maybe every, i'm not going to check) of the close weapons are light weapons. And light weapons generally have lower dice than one-handed or two-handed, as a way to lessen the potential impact of using Brawler's Flurry with larger weapons... something to think about.

Then again, the description of Brawler's Flurry has rules for what happens to the strength bonus if you hold a weapon with two hands, which is only a concern if you use one-handed or two-handed. And since you can also Flurry with Monk weapons, there's plenty of bigger weapons available.

CMonk's Flurry also works as TWF, but I've never seen anyone argue that you'd take a -4 Penalty to attack when using a Temple Sword.

the context I originally saw someone post that flurry with a single non light weapon would get an extra -2 was related to core monk two handing a temple sword. I don’t think most people apply that penalty, but I wasn’t able to figure out why he was wrong.