Changes to Scrolls, Staves, and Wands


Rules Discussion


Hi all,
I'm trying to grok the changes to what were "spell completion" items before, basically the ones that let casters use more spells through the item. Specifically, I am looking at the requirements for casting from a staff, wand, or scroll.

In Casting Spells from a Staff, p. 592, it says "You can Cast a Spell from a staff only if
you have that spell on your spell list, are able to cast spells of the appropriate level, and expend a number of charges from the staff equal to the spell’s level." Sounds good to me, their requirements are the same.

However, for wands, it says (p. 597), "To cast a spell from a wand, it must be on your spell list." It does not contain the phrase about casting spells of the appropriate level. Similar for scrolls.

Does this mean that (assuming they could find one and it's an occult scroll) a first level bard could use a scroll of Gate?

For the record, I don't think this would necessarily be a bad thing (for one, it uses the caster's save DCs), especially as a DM if I want to include a scroll of a higher level situational spell that could be particularly useful in a campaign. However, I could easily see players trying to abuse this by buying scrolls from higher level casters for shenanigans. It smells like the start to a PF2 Punpun.

What are your opinions? Does wealth by level and GM fiat mitigate this as an issue?


it's within the GM right to restrict treasure and shop items to be equal or lower level than the players.

in fact, i think the "deafault" option is "gear of your level or lower".

So, the "gm fiat" in this case would have been to ALLOW a higher level scroll on a lower level party, which can be cool and thematic (you can make a whole quest based upon stealing a high level scroll from a Big Bad as an example in order to prevent him from using it) but also not particularly exploitable.

that's one of the good things of separating items by levels.

THAT said:

i do believe that it's kinda weird that it doesn't even require a roll or something, you just so happen to be able to cast wishes out of scrolls as a level 1.

I do think that there's either a typo or an omission somewhere there.

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