Scoundrel MAD, Scoundrel bad?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Here is an example scoundrel that I am very much hoping to play that does not feel underpowered to me at all, although if people have suggestions or concerns, I'd love to hear them.

The Famous CharliKarli GnarliEttoes presents himself as a marvelous gnomish bard/clown, whose shtick is that he dresses up like a goofball goblin named Narltoe who is terrified of fire, loves horses, and speaks with aristocratic pomp and academic eloquence about how he is a lowly uneducated gobbo who wants one day to be a grand swashbuckling hero, but always bumbles his way into tragic comedy.

In fact, the Famous CharliKarli GnarliEttoes, is a goblin scoundrel rogue, Narltoe pretending to be a gnomish bard, pretending to be a goblin hero. His daily preparations always include applying enough makeup and a large silly red nose and red goggles, so as to look always in character and ready entertain children with his silly song and dance numbers.

Mechanically Narltoe is a goblin Entertainer Scoundrel rogue who is very good at singing, deception and good enough at acrobatics to pretend that he is a buffoon. His Heritage is Unbreakable, and his ancestry feat is goblin song. He is rather clever and might eventually MC in to Alchemist in order to make silver tongue mutagens. In combat he is an anti-bard, debuffing enemies in every non-magical manner imaginable and then hacking them to pieces with sneaky attacks. his first class feat is Nimble Dodge, and combined with unbreakable, he is a pretty hardy little goblin, and despite only having a 16 Dex and an 18 Cha, and a 10 CON, he ends up with an AC of 18 (20 when nimble dodging) and 18 HP at level 1. He also has a +8 to his goblin song vs will saves, which will debuff perception checks for feinting, and will eventually, when acquiring enough silver tongue mutagens, will have no chance of critically failing. Infact, at level 2, he could either have a +12 to Perform with a silvertongue mutagen if he goes MC alchemist, or a +10 to deception with distracting fient( without the mutagen), depending on which route Narltoe goes first. a +12 performance check at level 2 vs will is a pretty good route to Critically failed will saves and at expert prof, it affects 2 enemies at once. Even on just a success it is a round of debuffed will saves and perception checks for his allies. The biggest appeal of the mutagen being that it covers 4 important skills with minimal gold investment for magical items, although being in a party with an actual alchemist would cover it all as well.

he can have a STR of 14 if he does not go MC alchemist and still pack a decent punch.


Unicore wrote:
Doompatrol wrote:

As shroudb points out the scoundrel has 2 situational abilities for situations they already have or can acquire protection against. Hitting an opponent so they can't flank is highly situational and the rogue has some inbuilt flanking protection.

Denying reactions is situationally powerful but they have mobility and an ability at 12 to use a reaction to counter reactions.

Both the thief and ruffian offer substantial damage increases and damage stacks.

If damage is your primary interest in the tongue, then the scoundrel is probably not for you. That is ok.

Obviously but as I've pointed out the thief is also better as a charisma based rogue being less mad.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Doompatrol wrote:
Unicore wrote:
Doompatrol wrote:

As shroudb points out the scoundrel has 2 situational abilities for situations they already have or can acquire protection against. Hitting an opponent so they can't flank is highly situational and the rogue has some inbuilt flanking protection.

Denying reactions is situationally powerful but they have mobility and an ability at 12 to use a reaction to counter reactions.

Both the thief and ruffian offer substantial damage increases and damage stacks.

If damage is your primary interest in the tongue, then the scoundrel is probably not for you. That is ok.
Obviously but as I've pointed out the thief is also better as a charisma based rogue being less mad.

Even as a thief with a 16 CHA, you have to get a critical success to get more than 1 flat-footed attack in with a single feint. That probably means you are having to move to set up flanking, and that also often results in an expose rogue.


Unicore wrote:

Here is an example scoundrel that I am very much hoping to play that does not feel underpowered to me at all, although if people have suggestions or concerns, I'd love to hear them.

The Famous CharliKarli GnarliEttoes presents himself as a marvelous gnomish bard/clown, whose shtick is that he dresses up like a goofball goblin named Narltoe who is terrified of fire, loves horses, and speaks with aristocratic pomp and academic eloquence about how he is a lowly uneducated gobbo who wants one day to be a grand swashbuckling hero, but always bumbles his way into tragic comedy.

In fact, the Famous CharliKarli GnarliEttoes, is a goblin scoundrel rogue, Narltoe pretending to be a gnomish bard, pretending to be a goblin hero. His daily preparations always include applying enough makeup and a large silly red nose and red goggles, so as to look always in character and ready entertain children with his silly song and dance numbers.

Mechanically Narltoe is a goblin Entertainer Scoundrel rogue who is very good at singing, deception and good enough at acrobatics to pretend that he is a buffoon. His Heritage is Unbreakable, and his ancestry feat is goblin song. He is rather clever and might eventually MC in to Alchemist in order to make silver tongue mutagens. In combat he is an anti-bard, debuffing enemies in every non-magical manner imaginable and then hacking them to pieces with sneaky attacks. his first class feat is Nimble Dodge, and combined with unbreakable, he is a pretty hardy little goblin, and despite only having a 16 Dex and an 18 Cha, and a 10 CON, he ends up with an AC of 18 (20 when nimble dodging) and 18 HP at level 1. He also has a +8 to his goblin song vs will saves, which will debuff perception checks for feinting, and will eventually, when acquiring enough silver tongue mutagens, will have no chance of critically failing. Infact, at level 2, he could either have a +12 to Perform with a silvertongue mutagen if he goes MC alchemist, or a +10 to deception with distracting fient, depending on which...

Don't get me wrong, I already said before that I don't think Scondrel is weak. I just said that their debilitations are weaker than the other 2 paths.

Since mechanically the rogue is so strong (and not because of "dex to damage"), any of the 3 rackets works fine.

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