Geb or Necromancer / Undead evil AP?

[CorvusMask]

So been kinda wondering if they should do second take on evil ap eventually in 2e and was kinda thinking about how they are probably going to expand on PC necromancer abilities eventually and how Geb might be good fit for that stuff.

Like Hell's Vengeance was basically about being BBEG's elite strike force, so I'd think in 2e where levels are 1-20 you might actually take over the place in the end. So I was thinking that it'd be funny if evil AP in Geb ends with you putting Geb's ghost to rest and taking over nation :p

Since honestly, evil vs evil is also nice thing to have once in while :D

Anyhoo, I've been kinda rambling here, but yeah, interested on what is overall opinion people have. Like should there never be a second Evil AP and if there was, what kind of one you would prefer to compared to Hell's Vengeance?

[keftiu]

I have very, very little interest in an Evil AP. I just feel like there's so many more ideas to get to before enabling people to be their worst, y'know?

[Phillip Gastone]

A necromancer city like Hollowfaust from Scarred Lands might be better. The place is more LN than evil and is designed that Pharesmian's heads would explode from all the paradoxes("How can they cherish the birth of children when they raise zombies/! ARGGHH!! *Boom*)

[CorvusMask]

Yeah, but Paizo couldn't do AP set in Scarred Lands though. And honestly not many necromancer friendly potential ap locations considering that necromancy is illegal in majority of places according to undead slayer's handbook at least(its just that in evil places it tends to be "pay a fine" instead of death or imprisonment)

[Artofregicide]

I'd enjoy it, but it sounds very unlikely as there's probably not enough interest.

Also very unlikely that the PCs will manage to overthrow such a major villain like Geb.

[PossibleCabbage]

I have zero interest in a "you have to be evil" AP. I am fine with "evil is an entirely valid choice for this campaign, as are other alignments" as a premise.

So less Hell's Vengeance, more Reign of Winter, Skull & Shackles, or Strange Aeons.

[Yakman]

CorvusMask wrote:

Yeah, but Paizo couldn't do AP set in Scarred Lands though. And honestly not many necromancer friendly potential ap locations considering that necromancy is illegal in majority of places according to undead slayer's handbook at least(its just that in evil places it tends to be "pay a fine" instead of death or imprisonment)

well... they just added one...

[CorvusMask]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I have zero interest in a "you have to be evil" AP. I am fine with "evil is an entirely valid choice for this campaign, as are other alignments" as a premise.

So less Hell's Vengeance, more Reign of Winter, Skull & Shackles, or Strange Aeons.

So would you be okay with "Evil AP" as long it doesn't force characters to be evil if they don't want to?

[NotBothered]

Even ignoring Geb himself, I think an AP set there would be a really tough ask for a party unless they were somehow either acting as or pretending to act as agents of either the state or a powerful in country sponsor.

I'm not saying a tough AP would be a bad thing, but you may have to go in prepared to see PCs die if they make a wrong move. To me it would almost like being the resistance in a war movie if not played for evil.

[PossibleCabbage]

CorvusMask wrote:

So would you be okay with "Evil AP" as long it doesn't force characters to be evil if they don't want to?

I mean, if an entire party can be non-evil, and stay non-evil for the duration without missing out on large portions of the AP, then that's fine. I just personally see nothing appealing about playing evil characters.

The flaw of Hell's Vengeance is that it basically didn't work with an LN Chellish Patriot as well as it did a CE maniac; this is far and away my least favorite AP. I like the three I name checked quite a lot though.

I would not personally buy, run, play, or read an AP where "the entire party is evil, and must be evil" in the future, though. It's just not a thing I enjoy.

[CorvusMask]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

CorvusMask wrote:

So would you be okay with "Evil AP" as long it doesn't force characters to be evil if they don't want to?

I mean, if an entire party can be non-evil, and stay non-evil for the duration without missing out on large portions of the AP, then that's fine. I just personally see nothing appealing about playing evil characters.

The flaw of Hell's Vengeance is that it basically didn't work with an LN Chellish Patriot as well as it did a CE maniac; this is far and away my least favorite AP. I like the three I name checked quite a lot though.

I would not personally buy, run, play, or read an AP where "the entire party is evil, and must be evil" in the future, though. It's just not a thing I enjoy.

I think main issue with Hell's Vengeance is that it makes most sense for LE party, but allows enough NE or CE actions that it gets kinda messy(including having to start everyone as being crooks even if they are apparently chelixian minor nobility or Asmodean priests).

Anyway, I honestly can get that since I pretty much play only NG characters :P I'm just weird in that I'm interested in having APs that I'm not necessary interested in playing. Technically I don't have to be interested in even running them, but I haven't seen AP yet that I haven't been interested in one of the two.

My main interest in "evil" AP is design space for PCs being allowed to be necromancers, summon demons, do pacts with fiends and other similar evil npc only stuff. Like, even in the most morally ambiguous APs that have plenty of optional chances for characters to be of darker morality, it usually isn't most fitting choice to be one of those for whatever reason. Like Reign of Winter has moral ambiguity and allows for it, but it kinda fits best for "good guys in dark fairy tale" type story if you ask me, Strange Aeons does allow pcs to do really dark stuff to proceed, but demons/undead vs cthulhu mythos isn't really fitting either and... Well on skulls & shackles I don't know actually since I haven't played it or read it yet(I'm hoping to play it with tengu jinx witch), but I hear its most fitting for CN party and allows potentially doing some pirating and plundery, so I guess you could technically be demon summoning/skeleton raising pirates? Still probably somewhat frowned upon by other pirates

[Yakman]

Cheliax was the obvious locale for the first evil AP. that's been done now, so i can't see them doing a repeat.

Geb might be an interesting place for a 2nd one, as there's lots of fun opportunities for general mayhem and chaos. So maybe we'll see that in 5-6 years.

[PossibleCabbage]

It would be pretty disappointing to me if the first "Impossible Kingdoms" AP was an "Evil" one. I mean, sure Geb is a LE country (but so is Cheliax and we've had 2:1 good APs outnumbering the evil ones), but Jalmeray is CN, Nex is TN, and Alkenstar is LN.

Let's do an adventure that spans all of those places before we do another evil one. A "predominantly amoral" AP is preferable in this context to "do the work of evil" one, IMO.

[Phillip Gastone]

Or just pick up Way of the Wicked for all your evil needs.

[NotBothered]

Phillip Gastone wrote:

Or just pick up Way of the Wicked for all your evil needs.

I'm almost certainly going to be a minority of one here. But I thought way of the Wicked was pretty poor and that as an adventure Hells Vengeance is a better AP.

I'm by no means saying I loved HV, it's not really my thing, I like to root for the good guys. But if I had to pick one, HV over WotW every time