2e Alchemist reminds me of 1e Rogue and Monk


Rules Discussion


1 person marked this as a favorite.

They all have a lot of issues.

The current alchemist has a number of issues which I'd like to address. Bulk is the first that comes to mind. All alchemists have to carry at least 3 bulk of gear before we even think of picking up a weapon, armor or anything else you may want to carry.

Alchemist's Kit 2 bulk
Formula Book 1 bulk
Healer's Tools 1 bulk

Yes there are ways to avoid being encumbered, such as raising str, or taking the hefty hauler feat at lv3. But I don't think getting a pack mule or handing them to someone else would solve the problem because these are things you will want with you at all times. And what other class is required to carry around 3 bulk of items just to use their basic class features? Also keep in mind this is not including any weapons or armor.

The next issue involves the different research fields. At 1st level you can choose between Bomber, Chirurgeon, and Mutagenist. They all give you 2 formula's along with some other benefit. I'll go over these one at a time.

Bomber wrote:
When you throw a a bomb with the splash trait, you can chose to deal splash damage to only your target instead of the usual splash area.

This is good because you can prevent your allies from taking splash damage. You will make use of this nearly every combat, so it's easily the best of the 3.

Chirurgeon wrote:
As long as you're trained in medicine, you can make a craft check in place of a medicine check for any of medicine's uses.

So basically this lets you use your int mod instead of your wis mod. It's a good bonus, which amounts to +2-4 on a medicine check. But you still need Healer's Tools on hand, which only worsens the bulk problem.

Mutagenist wrote:
You can benefit from any mutagen, even if it wasn't specifically brewed for you. Whenever your proficiency rank for simple weapons increases, your proficiency rank in unarmed strikes increases to the same rank unless it's better.

Okay that first part does nothing. In the playtest a character could only benefit from a mutagen that was brewed specifically for them. This was removed in the final version, and now everyone can use any mutagen without issue. Now the 2nd part does eventually grant you expert proficiency in unarmed strikes, which is useful. But this doesn't happen until 7th level. So you gain no benefit from being a mutagenist until 7th level.

Alchemical Alacrity wrote:

Your comfort in concocting items is such that you can

create three at a time. When using the Quick Alchemy action, you can spend up to three batches of infused reagents to make up to three alchemical items as described in that action. These items do not have to be the same.
Quote:

First I'd like to make it clear this is an ability you get a lv15. Ok so if you use 1 action and 3 reagents, you can create any 3 alchemical items that you know the formula's for. But anything made with quick alchemy becomes inert at the start of your next turn. So after making the items, you are left with 2 actions to use 3 items.

The only ways I can see this being of use are

1. An ally moves if necessary, takes one, and uses it. This takes 2-3 of their actions, and chances are they will have something better to do on their turn.
2. You somehow gain an extra action and use all 3 items yourself.
3. You take the Enduring Alchemy feat, which gives you an extra turn before items made through quick alchemy go inert.

So 2 out of those 3 uses are situational, and the 3rd requires you to take a certain feat. This feels very underwhelming for a lv15 ability.

{quote=Bestial Mutagen]Benefit- You gain an item bonus to Athletics checks and
unarmed attack rolls. You gain a claw unarmed attack with the agile trait and a jaws unarmed attack.
Drawback- You take a –1 penalty to AC and a –2 penalty to Reflex saves.

This also feels mediocre to me. If we compare it to a weapon of equivalent level, the mutagen grants +1 to hit, -1 to AC and -2 to reflex saves. It feels like the penalties outweigh the benefit.

Here are my suggestions on how to fix these issues.

Reduce the alchemist's kit to 1 bulk, and the formula book to L bulk. This drops the total bulk from 3 to 1.1, which is a lot more managable.

Have the mutagenist research path either increase the benefits from a mutagen by 1 or reduce a mutagen's penalties by 1. I feel this would make them more useful to the alchemist.

Alchemical Alacrity, change it so you can use one of the items you just made as a free action.

Those are the biggest issues I have noticed so far with the class.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

for now i just assume that Alacrity (and double brew) just allow you to hold all items in one hand.

yes, the GENERAL rule is "you need 1 hand to hold 1 item"

but we have a specific ability that (if you cut out the fluff) it basically reads:

"You create 2-3 items in one hand"

the ability mentions nothing about dropping or otherwise altering the main ability apart from the number of items you create on this one hand.

and since specific > generic

by RAW, you have 3 items in your hand.

That also seems reasonable for a level 15 ability.


Regarding the first part of the mutagenist ability, while it certainly needs to be reworded to reflect the change to mutagens, it does seem to be intended to have an effect on some feats that would otherwise only work with mutagens you brewed yourself, such as feral mutagen.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Rules Discussion / 2e Alchemist reminds me of 1e Rogue and Monk All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.