Damnation and resurrection -- Diabolist vs. Damned feats


Rules Questions


Several PrCs hav rules for being damned, and the Diabolist PrC has rules for being damned and raised/resurrected. The new Damned feat chains in Champions of Corruption also has rules for being damned and raised -- but they don't quite match. So if a character is a Diabolist and also takes the Damned feat chains (which would be totally thematic and appropriate), s/he is going to face a rules conflict.

Here are the Diabolist's rules on damnation and getting raised. First, "Damned" (class attribute gained at first level of the PrC):

Quote:
Damned: When a diabolist is killed, her soul is instantly sent to Hell. Any character attempting to resurrect her must succeed at a caster level check equal to 10 + the diabolist's level or her spell fails. That character cannot attempt to resurrect the diabolist again until the following day, though other characters can attempt as they please.

That's straightforward enough. Then, when you reach 4th level of the PrC, you get the Hellish Soul class attribute:

Quote:
Hellish Soul: At 5th level, a diabolist has been deemed useful enough to the cause of Hell to be allowed a brief respite from damnation. If killed by any means outside of the will of Asmodeus, the archdevils, or another influential force in Hell, the diabolist can be resurrected as normal.

However, Champions of Corruption does things a bit differently. It provides a set of Damned feat chains (four feats in each chain). To access these you must make a bargain with a powerful evil outsider and accept damnation. Then it gives the following rules:

Quote:

DAMNATION

When a character takes a damnation feat, his soul is damned. The character’s spirit is promised to a dark power, whether an evil deity or a foul planar race, and his soul will ultimately be consigned to some grim fate after his death. The method by which one becomes damned typically determines the specifics of this eternal doom, but the in-game effects are the same regardless.

Upon taking a damnation feat, the character’s soul becomes ensnared by dark, otherworldly forces. From that point on, if the character dies, returning him to life proves to be more difficult. Any nonevil spellcaster who attempts to bring the character back from the dead must attempt a caster level check (DC = 10 + the slain character’s Hit Dice). Success means the spell functions as normal, while failure means the spell fails and cannot be attempted again for 24 hours. Evil spellcasters, however, can raise the slain character normally, without a check.

Upon taking a second damnation feat, the character becomes even more ensnared by his doom. He remains difficult to return from the dead (as noted above), and he can’t be affected by breath of life or raise dead, even when these spells are cast by an evil spellcaster. Also, the character’s alignment shifts one step toward evil (typically toward the alignment of whatever creature serves as his patron).

This corruption continues if the character takes a third damnation feat. He is affected as previously noted, and in addition, the spell resurrection no longer affects him. The character’s alignment again shifts one step toward evil (typically toward the alignment of whatever creature serves as his patron).

Finally, upon taking a fourth damnation feat, the character can no longer be returned from the dead by any method short of a wish or miracle. The character’s alignment shifts one more step toward the alignment of whatever creature serves as his patron.

Okay, so I'm playing a character who enters the Diabolist PrC and, at the same time, becomes damned and starts on one of these feat chains. First question, which trumps: the raising rules under the Diabolist (anyone can try to raise you, but the DC is 10+your Diabolist level) or the Damned feats? Second, if you reach 5th level in the Diabolist class, does your Hellish Soul ("the Diabolist can be resurrected as normal") trump the rules of the Damned feats?

Personally, I'd say it would, if only for flavor reasons -- a character who has reached 5th level as a Diabolist is probably quite high level (it's hard to enter that PrC before 9th level) and has also shown rare dedication to Hell's cause. So s/he has attracted the attention of Asmodeus himself, and gets a special deal. But I could see it going either way.

Thoughts?

Doug M.


Hmm, tricky.

I'd say that the damned feats override the Hellish Soul reprieve. Hellish Soul works on the damned soul bit from Diabolist, removing that penalty. However, the feats add extra, nastier conditions which aren't removed by Hellish Soul.

Until/unless they add something to the rules, that's probably the way it works. On the other hand, I can totally see such a Diabolist getting a special deal from Asmodeus or his secretary. I'd probably want that roleplayed, with a suitable intermediary devil being summoned, bound and sent back to negotiate a contract.


Hellish Soul doesn't specify that your Damned class feature is the only thing affected. You can be resurrected as normal, full stop.

This makes perfect sense; if Asmodeus is willing to let you leave hell for the "short term" (read: your natural life), I don't see why your soul being *more* bound to him would be a reason for him not to let you go out and forward his plans. I mean, the feats make sure you're Lawful Evil (if you weren't already) so you're just that much more a force for Hell in the world. If for some reason you betray Hell, then Asmodeus can always ensure your demise in other ways (he's the devil, after all), Hellish Soul stops working, and you're his to torment (I assume you would get special attention as a defector diabolist). Basically, it would be pretty silly if it didn't work. That being said, yes, RPing the negotiation/presentation of your new hell-granted privilege and rank is something that should definitely happen.

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