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Howdy.
So I was trying to rebuild my playtest alchemist. Who used Darts+ bombs. I was reading things and debating whether I wanted to take a dedication or take quick bomber.
I realized that Quick Draw from rogue/ranger is a straight up better version of Quick Bomber no?
Bombs are Martial Weapons. Meaning they're quick draw-able. But they can also draw anything else.
Where as Quick Bomb lets you only draw bombs.
I really need to ask.. What is up with that? I really wish that it was Quick Draw instead of Quick Bomb. Because then I could at least use Darts or Shuriken or any other thrown weapon that had a similar range to bombs.
Alchemists are already having a pretty rough time. They're more or less forced to use weapons (Especially if you're not a bomber) but so little of their class abilities fortify their ability to use them.
They seriously should have access to Quick Draw (or Quick Alchemy item that lets them fast draw+use any alchemical item). And they should seriously have Poison Weapon+ Improved Poison weapon. AFAIK they can't fast poison their weapons, Only Rogues can. Or alch with rogue dediation at lv 8 or 9 (whichever level gets the class feat)
draw
You draw your weapon and attack with the same motion. You Interact to draw a weapon, then Strike with that weapon.
bomb
You keep your bombs in easy-to-reach pouches from which you draw without thinking. You Interact to draw a bomb, then Strike with it.
(I seriously think Quick Draw should've been a General Feat like that Shield one. But I also think that relaod on the move should be a general feat too. Or at last they should be a general feat, but faster via the specialized classes
Or like I mentioned. Quick Bomb could've been Quick Alchemist and draw+use any alchemcial item).
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Quick Bomber is a level 1 Feat. Quick Draw is a level 2 one.
But yes, Quick Draw is better.
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So, was it intentional that Quick Bomber lost its interaction with Quick Alchemy in the final version? The feat was a bit different in the playtest overall, but it had a mention of how it interacted with Quick Alchemy while the final version has no such thing. With how integral Quick Alchemy is to a Bomber Alchemist, this omission seems odd.
It feels like Quick Bomber is missing an additional sentence which should say something like: "Also, when using the Quick Alchemy action to create at least one bomb, you may Strike with one as part of the action."
Honestly I wish Quick Alchemy's later "make more than one with 1 action"would have worked with perpitual infusions instead. So you could make 2 and then throw them with both left over actions.
I think its probably intentional that they removed that. I think they want quick alchemy to work a bit more like spells. In that it takes 2 actions to pull out a tailor made to the situation solution. Though its super painful.
I think I wish they had added that Trait tag to Quick Alchemy that limited it to Once a round instead of removing the various Quick Alchemy interactions.
If they limited Quick Alch to 1/rd, then having Quick Alch+Strike wouldn't have been a (percieved) isssue I bet.
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Ah, good point. Well, the "once per round" thing can just be added to my hypothetical addition to Quick Bomber: "Also, once per round, when using the Quick Alchemy action to create at least one bomb, you may Strike with one as part of the action."
That way, Double Brew and Alchemical Alacrity would still be meaningful abilities for a bomber.
in the playtest wasn't it also
"you may also draw a bomb when you make one with Quick alchemy" or something like that?
If I make a character with Alchemist Dedication, with the intent of:
A) Making bombs to throw as a secondary attack.
B) Making healing elixers as emergency healing
C) Making elixers of the cheetah // other buffs
How much of a waste is this feat?
If you *don't* have this feat, how many actions is it to draw a bomb and then throw it?
1 interactt actin to "draw" the bomb.
1 strike action to use it.
also the same as the rest of the items 1 action to draw item . 1 to use.
quick bomber it becomes 1action draw and throw (but may or may not work with certain worded feats)
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On the dedication. If you're wanting the bombs for stat effects or splash damage to activate weakness.They're not terrible via dedication (just avoid thunderstones, alchemist fire and acid flask probably. though acid is okay DoT).
For the various buffs, I think dedication is quite nice once it getss ome item levels.
The extrahealing is nice, once you get above the lv 1 healing items as well
You get a lot of nice tools for a dedication. I like it on most characters
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
A kind GM, like myself, might let you quickdraw and toss elixirs to teammates as one action. (Drawing and drinking would still be two.) But that's not really supported by the rules.
A good move, IMO, is to take quick bomber at first level, the ranger dedication at second, and Quick Draw at 4th and then retrain quick bomber. Hunt Target actually seems pretty decent on a bomber because of the increased range on bombs and any other weapon. That includes the alchemical crossbow if you can get your hands on it.
Nots sure if you're answering the original post. or the most recent question AdAstra is asking.
I'm not sure I'd retrain for Quick Draw. Quick Draw still is "draw and strike" just for any weapon not just bombs. If youu're an alch, you could get the familiar, and it can carry some elixirs and heal you via 1 action. But it'll probably die a few times, more so because any AOE will still hit it while its in your pocket or backpack. There aren't (that I can find) any rules stating it wouldn't be hit by the fireball. While in p1 there was rules where it wouldnn't be a target if it was on you (or in a bag).
But still a familiar can be you're 1 action=familiar run over and administer elixir friend.
Unless you're throwing-not shurikens- it won't help you much. It won't let you quick draw any alchemical items. Seemingly, no matter what. that will always be 2 actions from what I know.
Ranger dedication is great though!
But I'd opt for Hunter's Aim over Quick Draw. that +2 Circ bonus is an effective pseudo profiency boost. Which, as alchemists ~never~ get above Expert, and all their bombs must direct hit for the debuffs, is a real concern. I've had plenty of issues hitting at 10+ (Int-Dex build though, but thats the diference of 1)
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Alchemical Xbow is nice if you're dedicating Alchemsit. But for a pure alchemist it is of less use. Well it is pretty nice for ranged Churri who hands out all his Daily allotment out in the morning. Or ranged mutagenists (who mostly use mutagens as "skill monkey" tools, not melee based). But it is quite bad for a bomber. Or any alchemist who wants to draw items in battle.
it is 2 handed, so you can't drawa any other item without having to spend 1 interaction to "reequip" your hand to the xbow.
Also it only uses lv 1 bombs if I remember right. So it feels like a waste for scaled up bombs to make lv 1 instead.
It is however absolutely great for a weakness focused xbow ranger with alchemist dedication. So very tasty.
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Zwordsman wrote:
it is 2 handed, so you can't drawa any other item without having to spend 1 interaction to "reequip" your hand to the xbow.
Also it only uses lv 1 bombs if I remember right. So it feels like a waste for scaled up bombs to make lv 1 instead.
It is however absolutely great for a weakness focused xbow ranger with alchemist dedication. So very tasty.
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Note that the reload action includes putting your Hands back on your weapon.
CRB p.279 wrote: Switching your grip to free a hand and then to place your hands in the grip necessary to wield the weapon are both included in the actions you spend to reload a weapon. So shooting, throwing a bomb and then reloading would place your Hands back on your xbow, ready to shoot.
In regards to the Level 1 bombs:you could always have some store bought bombs with you for that purpose.
I don't have the quote off hand, But somewhere there is a quote about not being able to break actions into their smaller parts.
Strictly speaking " Switching your grip to free a hand and then to place your hands in the grip necessary to wield the weapon are both included in the actions you spend to reload a weapon."
This is all one action. A specific interact action "reloaod". 1 action to do it all. and P2 doesn't let you break up actions.
The same way Quick bombs or Quick Draw don't work with Hunter's Aim because Hunter's aim is its own strike, while the "quicks" are a specific interact+strike. Nor do they work with Double Shot.
It isn't something I agree with. But it has been how things have been going. At least so far. In a home game? Ignore that weirdness.
I'd say go with the Reload also regrips, and also ignore quick bomb/draw's hiccup.
Or just rewrite it with the more usable wording Something similiar to what they had in the playtest,'you may draw the associated weapon with the same action to use it'
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Yep at higher levels you can quite readily buy or craft low level bombs. But it is quite expensive until lv 7 or 10+ IMO.
Stil quite useful if you identify weaknesses before loading and firing. (since you can load it however long you want, but only have 1 min after firing)
I would be very surprised if there was anything in the rules against not taking a free action provided to you for free. Feel free to correct me with a source as I haven't been able to find anything in that vein after spending an hour.
Your example with quick bombs or quickdraw in combination with Hunters aim also doesn't compare because you're trying to combine two actions which is very different from not taking a free action.
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