Complex Natural Attacks Bonuses


Rules Questions


All right, now I have some problems to calculate, maybe, some of theese bonuses can not be used together. Please, help me to find, are there some situations, when bonuses do not stack or can not be together?

I have;

1. Natural attacks from dragod disciple + bloodrager
2. Amulet of mighty Fists (Furious, Furyborn, Shock, Vicious)
3. Bodywraps of Mighty Strikes (+1 Dragonbane, Rilliant Energy, Limning)

Are there restrictionz to use it all in once in, for example, one attack?

I know, that +1 from bodywraps does not stack with +5 (in total) bonus from furyborn, but this is the only problem I can find with it.


I would think that natural weapons would be subject to the same +10 enhancement equivalent hard cap that manufactured weapons are. Not sure if this exceeds that or not, as I don't know the equivalents for several of these properties. Apart from that possible limit it looks good to me.


Yep, I heared about +10 cap, but when does it hit the combo? In process of adding enhancement bonuses by furyborn? Or not? And with activating bodywraps, can I only activate what I want to activate (because of hard cap, and theese bonuses are 5+7=12)?


@Lord Lupus the Grey: you have some misinformation.

Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks.
An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon.
Unarmed strikes count as light weapons (for purposes of two-weapon attack penalties and so on).

This means that an Unarmed Attack is not treated as a weapon normally. Therefore, some of your weapon properties are not allowed:

I paraphrase the main bonus for each in italics.

Furious wrote:
This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons.

When raging, its enhancement bonus is +2 better than normal.

Furyborn wrote:
This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons.

Each damages with weapon, its enhancement bonus increases by +1 (max +5).

Vicious wrote:
This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons.

2d6 damage opponent/1d6 damage self.

Shock: OK
1d6 electricity

The AoMF is not capped at +10, but +5. You are OK there.

Additionally, the bodywrap can grant melee weapon special abilities to a creature’s unarmed attacks, so long as those special abilities to be added apply to unarmed attacks.

Bane(Dragon): OK

enhancement bonus is +2 better than its actual bonus. 2d6 damage

Brilliant Energy: OK
Armor and shield bonuses to AC do not count

Limning: OK
outlines the creature in faerie fire for 1 round.

The BWoMS is not capped at +10, but +7. You are OK there.

The Bloodrager does not get any natural attacks.

The Dragon Disciple only gets a natural attack at Dragon Disciple 2. He gets a Bite attack.

Your minimum BAB for the Bite attack is Bloodrager 5/Dragon Disciple 2. That BAB is +6/+1.

If you are only making a single attack, I will assume it is with the Bite, and you activate the BWoMS for it. Had the properties been valid, this is what you would see:

Bite: +6 (BAB) + X (Str) + 1 (BWoMS) + 2|0 (Dragon Bane) + 2|0 (Rage); You bypass Armor and Shield AC but cannot hit undead/constructs.
Damage: 1d6|1d4 (medium}small} + 1.5*X (Str, Primary) + 2d6 (Vicious) + 1d6 Electricity + 2|0 (rage) + Y(Furyborn 0-5) + [2+2d6]|0 (Dragon Bane) and the creature is farie fired for a round. Additionally, you take 1d6 (Vicious).

If you full attack, you get two iterative attacks (+6/+1) and one secondary bite attack (+1). You can apply the BWoMS only to two of these, and the AoMF only applies to the Bite unless you don't use a weapon for your iterativs.

From what I can see, it all stacks fine. You just cannot put some properties on the AoMF.

/cevah


Cevah wrote:
@Lord Lupus the Grey: you have some misinformation.

So do you. Unarmed Strikes do count as a (light) melee weapon. Not a manufactured one, but a melee weapon nonetheless (they show up in the melee weapons table). Thus, Furious, Furyborn, and Vicious can all be placed on an AoMF.

Java Man wrote:
I would think that natural weapons would be subject to the same +10 enhancement equivalent hard cap that manufactured weapons are.

The cap is for creating weapons, not the actual attack. Any projectile weapon can fire an effective +19 (+10 weapon, +10 ammunition, -1 from overlap). Using AoMF; BoMS, and Ascetic Style, you can have an effective +21 (+10 weapon, +5 AoMF, +7 BoMS, 1 from overlap).


as he has dragon bloodline. im assuming the natural attacks he talk about from the blood rager is the claws he get when he rage.


Derklord wrote:
Cevah wrote:
@Lord Lupus the Grey: you have some misinformation.
So do you. Unarmed Strikes do count as a (light) melee weapon. Not a manufactured one, but a melee weapon nonetheless (they show up in the melee weapons table). Thus, Furious, Furyborn, and Vicious can all be placed on an AoMF.

So you think Unarmed Strike = Unarmed Attack? I don't.

Unarmed Strike wrote:

An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an unarmed strike. Unarmed strikes do not count as natural weapons (see Combat). The damage from an unarmed strike is considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus on weapon damage rolls.

A monk or any character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat can deal lethal or nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes, at his discretion.

It states An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. which disagrees with Unarmed Attacks.

It states Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an unarmed strike. which agrees.
It states The damage from an unarmed strike is considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus on weapon damage rolls. which agrees.

If the first statement really meant it counted as a weapon all the time, then why the other two statements? Remember the word count issue they always mention? You could have dropped the later two statements if the first was true.

/cevah

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