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I thought I would jot down some thoughts I had since our group is almost finished with CotCT. Just for background, our group has been playing since RotR and has around 30 complete play-throughs including all of the base sets, most of the seasons, and several of the home brew adventures like Shield of Rannik. In no particular order:
1) We really like the new Core rules and adjustment of boons and powers to be more helpful. Instead of each adventure being a "blessing fest," characters are now encouraged to diversity, which is more interesting. It also leads to more interesting combos and discoveries as different powers and boons interact in fun ways.
2) Hero Points are AWESOME. Getting to chose the order of your feats (and generally get them earlier in the scenario if you want) was a huge win for us. And the rerolls at critical moments were invaluable.
3) The base was an excellent idea and we were very excited to have a "safe spot" to run to if needed. In reality, we didn't really use it much. A few times it was nice to go clear a scourge or use some downtime to chase one of the supporters that givs
4) The fleshed out story is great and we are really enjoying the theme. Our only fault is that we only get together every 4-6 weeks and so we occasionally forget who certain characters are. Some of this may come from the stylized names they are given (Who was Count Fritzelfratz again? I can't remember. Flip back to the last chapter. Nevermind, that was duke BumbleBlart)
5) The new card layout is growing on us, but the font size is still a bit small, even for young eyes. You can't easily discern cards across the table like you could before. With the huge variety of boons and blessings, we have not gotten to a point where we can recognize a card and powers by it's art from across the table. Each card must be picked up and read by each person every time, which can slow things down a bit.
6) The pace of the game has slowed down quite a bit. I think RotR was a nice place to start but after a while it was very predictable and we could blow through an adventure in 30-45 minutes. WotR took this to a whole new extreme and I think that was the slowest moving set. (So many checks!) In my experience, CotCT is the 2nd slowest moving for us so far (Still a lot of checks! But at least I'm not dying in adventure zero) I think one thing contributing to this is that banes are pretty much all non-vanilla now. I remember in RotR getting the Ogre. No powers, no abilities, just a flat 14 that was pretty hard on a new character. The Ogre and the Shadow were 2 of the most memorable monsters from the base set and they weren't that complicated. Now almost ever monster has a BYA, AYA, or While you act, or some other thing that needs to be resolved. It can really bog down turns and we actually found ourselves getting excited when we hit something simpler like a zombie (which has also increased in complexity from previous sets, but is still kind of a French-vanilla compared to other banes.) I think variety in banes is a good thing, but I think it went too far in that direction for this set. Need some non-complex banes mixed in to make the complex ones stand out. Each bane does not need a 10 minute situation meeting to address.
7) Related to the above, there is a LOT to keep up with at a time. The hour has a power to remember (and as above, you often can't read it across the table), the Harrow suit has an ongoing power (we forgot this often), most scenarios have some special rule(s) to keep up with, and of course scourges (not directly in front of each player due to the new token system, leading to players have to reach across and re-read the cards.) If this is meant as a point of entry for new players, I can see where this might be a challenge. Even as veterans at time it was wearying to keep up with all the juggling rules.
Overall I really like Core and the direction the game has taken. CotCT may be a little too busy at times and can bog the game down in multiple layers of complexity. I know a lot of hard core fans really enjoy this aspect but a few in our group do not. We were glad to see the options for adjusting difficulty and gave a few of those a try. We were able to shorten some scenarios but the overall feeling of "I'm keeping up with 4 things in my head at all times" did not lighten so I don't know if that's the right solution for us.
Thanks for reading my 2 cents. I'm interested in hearing others' take on the new set.
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Great writeup fuji.
I'd say I agree with pretty much everything here, though the question of things being too busy and having too many powers to remember is less of a problem for those of us who do most of our PACG gaming online... it's easier to remember a power when it's right at the top of the most recent update post than if it's on a card way across the table.
I was curious about two specific things:
1. What do you think of the one-boon-of-a-type rule? Do you feel like you miss being able to toss multiple blessings at a problem?
2. How much did your group use the Avenging mechanic? I feel like it's something that people often forget about, but it can be VERY useful in some situations.
I haven't played CotCT, though I've used the new Core cards/rules in three different settings: the Dragon's Demand Core campaign, the We Be Heroes? free mini-adventure, and the Fangwood Thieves organized play (OP) adventure. My gaming is split between face-to-face (all players types: casual players, new players, very experienced players) and online. Nowadays I play more OP than non-OP.
In agreement with your post, I like the Core and its revised rules. A lot. Almost all the changes are positive and the game is well designed, so I won't comment on those again. Just a few things that we're still getting used to:
Due to the one-boon-per-type rule, it can be difficult to obtain rare, sought-after boons at higher levels. If a magic-user encounters an amazing sword, too bad; you can't shower the mage with blessings to acquire it. Barriers are also more challenging under this rule, as is the closing/guarding of locations. Abadar has always been a great blessing, but now Gozreh is climbing much higher on my list.
Monsters and barriers at early levels are meaner. Before/after acting effects can be brutal, and scourges can hinder even the most well-prepared adventurers.
The #1 way that new and experienced players get discouraged is scourges. (Been Wounded and Frightened yet? I have.) IMHO, it would have been useful to have "conditions" instead of scourges - with half of them having positive effects and half of them having negative effects, instead of them all being negative.
I can see the storybook being a huge improvement for solo and online gamers. The storybook doesn't do much for us in its current form, however, because we don't enjoy extended read-alouds. We also don't have any background with the RPG, so the Core stories sometimes come across as lengthy lists of names and places with no intrinsic meaning. High school history flashbacks, in some cases.
Don't take any of this the wrong way, though. I truly enjoy the game, despite some niggles, and I look forward to playing CotCT and all future OP and non-OP expansions.
A mini review of the above campaigns/adventures:
Dragon's Demand Core campaign: Solid fun, though a couple of scenarios have rules that can be tough to interpret by new players. A few scenarios can also be quite difficult for particular party builds.
We Be Heroes?: A silly and very fun introduction to PACG, though best run by an experienced player to interpret the scenario rules properly.
Fangwood Thieves: A trial by bloodshed, barriers, scourges, and wildcards. This can kill you. I've seen players lose characters in almost every scenario, so beware. Not recommended for people new to the game, but an enjoyable challenge for others.
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the question of things being too busy and having too many powers to remember is less of a problem for those of us who do most of our PACG gaming online... it's easier to remember a power when it's right at the top of the most recent update post than if it's on a card way across the table.
I've only had a few of those games and stalked about a dozen more, but that's not my experience - people seem to constantly be forgetting scenario powers, location powers and even top blessing discard (and that's BEFORE they had to actually track the new blessings' ongoing effect). I'll defer to your superior experience though.
To add to Cartmanbeck's questions to OP:
3) How large is your party?
4) Which blessings do you find are better - the old ones (where you could custom-tailor your party with double-dice blessings for tasks the party is weak at) or the new ones (where you get a bunch of effect, but very few overlaps - so you're unlikely to have just the "right" one for any given task; not to mention most of them seem to add a single die AND they can't be easily stacked)? How much did that impact your enjoyment of the game?
What do you think of the one-boon-of-a-type rule? Do you feel like you miss being able to toss multiple blessings at a problem?
In some cases, this led directly or indirectly to the character deaths in Fangwood Thieves (mentioned above). So yes, it's had an effect. :)
I'm midway through Adventure 2 of CotCT and share a lot of the OP's views.
I play with a friend, each of us using 3 characters, so we're able to play in a smaller space and don't have problems with the text size. I can see more bodies around the table would make it more difficult.
I love the idea of base, but, with six characters, it's rough giving up a turn to heal a card and get a supporter.
The hour hasn't been bad for us- I'll usually flip the new card and read the effect. Typically we can tell if it's something that will apply or not (Varian's probably not going to use that +2 on strength checks, but if it's Kyra's turn, we'll keep it in mind). Our issue has been remembering the Harrow effect. Lots of "Wait, that was a dex check, I should have rolled another d4."
Hero points are very nice, and enough to get our feats and have some rerolls. Although we did have a five dice re-roll come up all 1s...
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Thanks for continuing the discussion, I'll answer the questions below:
1. What do you think of the one-boon-of-a-type rule? Do you feel like you miss being able to toss multiple blessings at a problem?
I feel like it was an improvement. It definitely made allies more valuable than just using them to explore. It also made teaming up together more attractive. True, we could not help a character making a check with a skill they didn't have easy by rolling 10d4 like in the old days, so we had more frequent failures, but with the improvements to armor and items, those failures did not seem as catastrophic as in the past. The thinning of boons on a set schedule also made the new boons come up more often than in past sets, so you didn't feel as disappointed if the wizard failed to acquire the latest sword - it would be back again soon. (at one point in Adventure 4, our deck of weapons in the vault was only 12 cards)
2. How much did your group use the Avenging mechanic? I feel like it's something that people often forget about, but it can be VERY useful in some situations.
I'll admit we forgot to use it a few times early on but later in the game we actually PLANNED to use it (Especially the scenario "Belly of the Beast" or whatever it was called - where the same character had to face-plant against the villain and then be the one to beat him later.)
3) How large is your party?
Typically 4, but with CotCT we are running 3. We thought it would move much faster than with 4 in previous sets but as explained above, with the increased complexity it actually is taking longer.
4) Which blessings do you find are better - the old ones (where you could custom-tailor your party with double-dice blessings for tasks the party is weak at) or the new ones (where you get a bunch of effect, but very few overlaps - so you're unlikely to have just the "right" one for any given task; not to mention most of them seem to add a single die AND they can't be easily stacked)? How much did that impact your enjoyment of the game?
I think a nice mix of old style and new would be good. A few (or one) of the old "2 dice" style and then a good mix of the new variable blessings would make it interesting but still not allow people to stockpile 5 classic blessings of abadar and trivialize barriers (yes, we were guilty of doing that in the past... EVERYBODY had a blessing of abadar.) We did find that the "Freely" blessings were moderately more valuable. At least then you could hit a boss with 2 single die blessings. With the improved functionality of many of the other boons, we were using more items, allies, and even armors on checks so we were more thoughtful about our card choices (Hmmmm, this armor reduces more damage, but that one has a power to add/reroll a die.)
I'll pop in my 2cp as well, since I just stumbled back on this after playing a few adventures in:
1. What do you think of the one-boon-of-a-type rule? Do you feel like you miss being able to toss multiple blessings at a problem?
We came into the adventure with this rule basically on probation, and were prepared to house-rule it away if it was too much of an issue. However, the upgrade to supportability of cards, particularly for allies and items, but also a lot of weapons and spells, meant that we've never strongly felt the urge to actually change it back. If anything, the rule may have improved our play since we may have been too aggressive throwing blessings at problems in the old adventures, which left us dry for more important checks later.
2. How much did your group use the Avenging mechanic? I feel like it's something that people often forget about, but it can be VERY useful in some situations.
We have been really bad about this, and I think have maybe used it once? I like it a lot in concept, but it's both hard to remember, and in general I'd just rather throw more support cards at the initial check.
3) How large is your party?
We play six characters, each player playing 3 each. It definitely causes games to slow to a crawl at times, but we find it fun. Overall, I think the new rules actually make large groups more fun, as it's not just a blessing-spam-fest (In most previous adventures, you always wanted to max blessings before getting any other card feats because you needed so much explore and cards to help others, and blessings were the best at both of those)
4) Which blessings do you find are better - the old ones (where you could custom-tailor your party with double-dice blessings for tasks the party is weak at) or the new ones (where you get a bunch of effect, but very few overlaps.
First off, we absolutely love the hour mechanic, so the new blessings win almost exclusively on having those. I think we also both agree that the variety instead of 5-of-a-kinds is also cool, especially since you can still stock up on certain deities if you want, they just have different names. I would like more of the old style double-blessings to be included, but not so much that I'd want to go back to the low-variety blessing count.