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Wow. Been a long, long while since I posted anything substantive here on the boards . . . . Anyhow -- to business!
I have been a fan of the M:TG Ravnica setting since the first set's release some 14 years ago. As an EDH player and a d20 gamer, Ravnica and its guilds have been a strong source of inspiration for me over the years. I have recently committed to GMing a game for my local crew set in Ravnica itself, and I'd like to hash out some concepts and suggestions about converting the M:TG guild mechanics to functional parallels in Spheres/Pathfinder.
Guilds, and Their Mechanics
Azorius Senate
-- forecast
-- detain
-- addendum
House Dimir
-- transmute
-- cipher
-- surveil
Cult of Rakdos
-- hellbent
-- unleash
-- spectacle
Gruul Clans
-- bloodthirst
-- bloodrush
-- riot
Selesnya Conclave
-- convoke
-- populate
-- themechanictheynevermade
Orzhov Syndicate
-- haunt
-- extort
-- afterlife
Izzet League
-- replicate
-- overload
-- jump-start
Golgari Swarm
-- dredge
-- scavenge
-- undergrowth
Boros Legion
-- radiance
-- battalion
-- mentor
Simic Combine
-- graft
-- evolve
-- adapt
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I'm just going to leave the list here in this initial post, and over the coming days I'll present my brainstorms on a per-mechanic basis. Until my next post, though, I would *love* to read about your ideas!
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The Philosophy Behind the Brainstorms
To be succinct: balanced gameplay is NOT my objective in this endeavor, but effort will be given to keep things from becoming too extreme. And not only is this about finding mechanical nuts and bolts to piece together in d20/PF/Spheres language to evoke the feel of the Ravnican guild mechanics, but it is also undertaken with the understanding that none of these mechanics will be swapped out for others from existing classes -- this is all bonus material for the use of narrative development, at a GM's discretion.
(Yes, for the record: use the material if you like -- I just ask that you mention the awesome discussion about it, and drop my avatar ID, too.)
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A Brief Outline of Root Ideas, Part I
Forecast -- use the same sphere ability on two consecutive turns, spending a spell point/martial focus on the second to gain an increased effect
Detain -- effectively blank; all speculations thus far are quite rules-heavy
Addendum -- increase casting/activation time to gain diminished rider effect from a different sphere
Transmute -- a uses-per-day resource that allows a character to emulate another guild's mechanic(s)
Cipher -- temporarily sacrifice the ability to utilize a known sphere/ability to enable an ally to trigger a reduced effect with a successful weapon attack
Surveil -- allows a character to modify others' roll results with a bonus/penalty (similar to the dual-cursed oracle's "reroll it!" ability)
Hellbent -- for spherecasting, an obvious parallel is the Empowered Abilities boon; for martial characters, well . . . a bonus for NOT recovering martial focus??!!
Unleash -- a) free Berserker sphere; b) {oh,ithurtsjusttomentionit!} the advantage mechanic from 5E {ermagerdnessbutmystomachisroiling} . . . . hit harder, be tougher, but EVERYTHING hits you
Spectacle -- another rules-heavy speculation
Forcast would be for spells that while memorized give the character an additional cantrip. I would limit to classes that prepare spells: wizards, magus, cleric, paladin, etc; and keep them away from spontanious casters.
Addendum would gives spells an additional effect when cast using a longer action than normal: a swift action increased to a standard action, a standard action increased to full round, etc.
Cypher could be that after it is cast, choose a weapon within short range. For the next minute, that user of that weapon may use that spell as a Swift action spell-like ability after dealing damage with the weapon.
Haunt would be similar, but choose a target within short range. If that target dies while within range, the caster may use the spell as an immediate action spell-like ability.
Replicate could allow the caster to sacrifice additional spell slots of the same or higher spell level to effectively recast the spell as part of the same action.
Radiance and Overload are the last abilities primarily for spells, I don't know how to make them work in a manner that fits PF mechanics and the original feel.
The Brainstorm Seeds, Part II
Bloodthirst -- at the beginning of a combat encounter, if an ally damages an enemy before the Gruul character takes his/her first action, gain a bonus to attacks, damage, AC, and saves (?) vs that enemy
Bloodrush -- this one is complicated, obviously, but I was thinking it could be something similar to a brief summon: call in a Gruul ally to make one attack/cast in a combat
Riot -- either get to act in a surprise round and then in normal initiative as though having rolled a nat 20; OR get an attack and damage bonus and some temporary hit points . . . . probably limited number of times per day
Convoke -- use a move action and expend focus/sacrifice a spell point to empower an ally's casting
Populate -- similar to the bloodrush brainstorm: use the ability to get one round's worth of attacks from a "companion creature" (somewhat like a spiritual weapon + mirror image hybridization)
Brains on the Storm, Part III
Haunt -- rules-heavy, thus far
Extort -- all enemies affected by sphere ability lose 1/2 HP per caster/practitioner level, you gain equivalent temporary hit points
Afterlife -- when your character goes unconscious, attendant spirits make retributive strikes; greater effect when character dies // perhaps better to connect this ability to summoned creatures, companions, or similar
Replicate -- limited number of times per day, when producing a targeted magical effect, you may spend additional spell points to copy it
(Sidebar: for the record -- I am running with Spheres of Power as the baseline mechanical structure, rather than Vancian casting.)
Overload -- needs more refining; too similar to replicate, maybe // replicate can target the same target multiple times, overload should hit each legal target within range only once
Jump-start -- moreso than any other Izzet mechanic, this seems a "prepared casters only" thing, to me; needs work
Dredge -- another prepared caster effect; add a recharge duration to other spheres in order to regain use of an expended sphere ability?
Scavenge -- summons-centric, probably works best with settings in which summon spells access individual, specific creatures; lose ability to resummon that creature for the day to gain some of its ability for the duration of a combat encounter
Undergrowth -- still working on this one
[Insert Goblin Flectomancer Reference Here]
Radiance -- copies a targeted magical effect based upon alignment/creature type/guild membership . . . .
Battalion -- number of times per day, if three allies strike the same enemy in a given round with weapon attacks, produce a sphere effect (maybe a once-per-encounter thing?)
Mentor -- an obvious choice for full-BAB legionnaires: in a round where the same enemy is struck with a weapon attack by the mentoring character and an ally with lower BAB, the lower-BAB character gains an attack bonus and temporary hit points // bonus likely to scale by level, duration of bonus needs to be determined
Graft -- this is the one I've pondered most: basically a cross between a familiar and some free metamagic abilities // cytoplast graft can "bond" to another creature and impart certain bonuses, also allows for doubled effects of certain spherecastings
Evolve -- another tough puzzle to sort
Adapt -- daily limit ability; expend focus/spend spell point to gain BAB and HP for one combat, similar to the divine power/righteous might spells, likely modified with appropriate creature-related abilities
. . . OR . . . .
I could just grant guild members a bonus talent/feat tree to fill from preselected pools of options . . . .
But that would be a ton of work, too . . . . lol
Because, yes, it *does* make sense to just port options over as much as possible.
Overload is effectively making target spells into mass spell, by paying some cost. Probably best would be add 3 to spell level like quickened.
Quicken Spell is +4, but yeah, something in that range. Overloaded magic missile sounds like a really fun time.
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Heh. A 9th-caster-level magic missile copied for each legal target within range? In an urban environment?
Reminds me of the flavor text on Cyclonic Rift, iirc -- The Izzet specialize in unnatural disaster.
Reminds me of spellcraft shenanigans from Morrowind. "Yeah, let's just do 1 damage . . . to everybody within half a mile."
There's an interesting line of discussion!
Extort is flavorful in M:TG, but what would it look like in a Pathfinder setting? Every time I consider it seriously, I reach the conclusion that it can't simply be a life-drain effect on all the creatures on an area -- strictly speaking. On an EDH battlefield, it hits the planeswalkers involved (players), and not the creatures in play . . . . Now, obviously that conflicts with what I've proposed above, but:
1) giving individual characters and players a power that blends well with the stylistic elements of their guild is better than not
2) if we let extort function mechanically as it does by linguistic definition, then why wouldn't it just be another resource-grabbing tool?
3) In order to make it close to balanced, one would need to throw a book's worth of addenda and provisos into its rules text (i.e., . . . affected dudes must be suchandsuch CR based on PC's character level, . . . .), and, frankly, while I like the complexity of PF/3.x/SoMP, I dislike bookkeeping as a playstyle.
So, yeah . . . . Y'all smell what I'm stepping in?
Maybe I wasn't as clear as I meant to be.
Since the extort ability only hits *players*, rather than creatures on the battlefield, it seems to me that a . . . "concrete"? . . . "definitive"? . . . "pure"? . . . translation of that ability to Pathfinder play would involve more indirect factors . . . . Like a loss of prestige for the guild or person of interest leading the creatures on the battlefield.
That would fit with a direct mirroring, narratively, I think. A macrocosmic effect, if you would.
As far as PCs go, though, **yes** -- a lifedrain power is called for in order to match the mechanical feel of extort . . . .
Is that any clearer at all? I was talking about the two different categories of extort -- the M:TG global effect as opposed to an effective translation of it to a PC's sphere of agency . . . .
I'm terribad hungry right now, so I may only be worsening any miscommunication . . . . but here's a first attempt.
Question: In attempting to implement these mechanical/stylistic translations to actual tabletop RPG play, would you key the effects off character level, or caster/practitioner level?
Okay -- I might have made a couple of breakthroughs . . . .
Detain: a daily limit ability that can be used one of two ways -- either as a free action upon successfully striking an enemy with a weapon attack or when an enemy fails a save against a spherecasting effect your character produces; or as a standard action (granting a +2 bonus {scaling?} to the DC) --> the target must make a Will save: on a failure, the target loses the ability to expend focus/spend spell points for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your casting/practitioner modifier; on a successful save, the target loses the ability to expend focus/spend spell points for one round
Spectacle: a daily limit ability that allows the character to attempt an Intimidate check after an opponent has been damaged by an ally; if the check is successful, the character gains either a bonus temporary spell point or martial focus that must be expended within the following round and against the Intimidated target; a failed check would garner some small bonus . . . . I'm hunting suggestions!!
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I know I've been radio silent on this lately -- just busy. I truly enjoy all the contributions y'all are making! Thank you!
. . . I really wish someone would DM/GM a Ravnica game with these ideas in mind/in play . . . .
Well, it has been a year since I put anything in here, but!! I *have* finally gotten a Ravnica game running! I have set it in a district cut off from the remainder of the urban sprawl by a vast expanse of the Rubblebelt (or a Rubblebelt), and some time between Jace Beleren's disappearance after becoming the Living Guildpact and the events of the War of the Spark. Rather handy, getting to dodge all that wild Planeswalker nonsense. :D
My cast of characters consists of a Boros swiftblade (human rogue), a Rakdos fell rider (hobgoblin racial cavalier archetype), and an Orzhov advokist (?) (hobgoblin omdura). A fun mix!
Mechanically speaking, I'm running a hybridization of PF/3.x and D&D 4e as the chassis for gameplay, so you'll see some weird interactions . . . .
As my Orzhov player is very fond of the mechanical aspect of the game, I've been working on defining the Syndicate's three mechanics the most. This is what I'm thinking so far:
Afterlife -- Rather than triggering this off of player death, as I originally speculated, I now propose that 'afterlife' function as a means of acquiring "servitor/debtor spirits". It seems good to me that an Orzhov character can only have so many bound spirits at any one time, and my current notion is to have that number be 3 + 1/2 character level. As a swift or free action, the Orzhov character can force all nonminion creatures within Close range that die during the next turn to make a Will save or have their soul/spiritual essence bound to that character until such time that he or she chooses to release said bound spirit.
Haunt -- The 'haunt' ability would be the primary means of releasing the spirits gained via 'afterlife'. At the time of casting a spell, the Orzhov character may, as a free action, release a spirit to haunt another creature, and once that creature dies, the cast spell is copied and directed at the character's discretion. Since doubling the number of 9th-level spells a character can cast in a day seems a bit too strong, it may be good to force the haunt ability to cost a number of spirits equal to the level of the "haunting spell".
Extort -- This is where I'm having the most issues. My newest brainstorm has been to allow 'extort' to steal healing surges from creatures, but not to accrue them to the guild member. A saving throw would be required, of course, but I'm not sure how to set it up so that there is a net gain for the character even if all the targets pass their saves . . . . Perhaps enemies take damage equal to half the number of bound spirits in the "spirit pool" on a successful save, but on a failed save they take damage equal to the numver of spirits *and* lose a healing surge? (Another idea I have is to have the healing surges "stolen" by the character be something like in-guild currency: you don't gain extra healing surges or healing abilities, but you can cash in all this "siphoned soul energy" at a guild location for some tangible benefit. Gold would be appropriate, in a sense, considering the banking aspect of the guild, but that might be too . . . Too . . . weak, I guess? Though it could have a level-based multiplier, perhaps . . . . 10 x CL x the number of surges "redeemed"??) The extorter would gain life based on how much life the other creatures lost; or the amount of damage dealt could be based upon the number of spirits bound to the character at the time of extorting.
What do y'all think of this version??
I didn't play ravnica expansion so I can't say. I played invasion expansion in d&d 3.5
Here's another tidbit:
Jump-start -- In order to keep this ability from feeling too "samey" with replicate, I am now thinking about allowing replicate to let the character 'fuse' spell slots, but only a few times per day.
Hmmmm . . . .
An Izzet character would unlock this ability at whatever class level the caster gains access to 3rd-level spells in the Vancian mode. Once per day as a swift action, the character could 'fuse' two spell slots of a spell level one lower than the desired level to gain the higher spell slot (i.e., two 2nds become a 3rd, two 5ths become a 6th, etc.). The Izzet character would gain an additional use of this ability every six character levels thereafter.
A decent start to the idea, perhaps . . . .