Hello I just bought the core rule but there is some question I can't figure out myself.
1) The insight bonus from operative's Edge do stack with the skill focus feat?
2) I think I understand how to make a trick attack but When do I use Bluff, intimidate or stealth? And when can I use my specialization?
3) Why sometimes my specialisation gives +4 and sometimes don't?
Sorry for all the mystake I've made in English but I'm french so I don't really speak so fluently.
Thanks a lot.
1) The insight bonus does not stack.
2) You choose which skill to use when you make a trick attack. Including your specialization skill.
3) The +4 Specializations tend to be for skills that don't use DEX. Skills that use DEX don't get the bonus. Since your character should have high DEX, the +4 is to make up for a low stat in something else.
Thank you very much for such nice answer and rapidity.
Also about the trick attack, Do I need some particularity to use computers ( if I'm hacker ) or stealth ( if I'm gohst ) Like somewhere to hide or some informatics device?
The requirements and options for all the skills are detailed in chapter 5, starting on page 132.
You probably want to spend skill points in your specialization skill. You may also wish to purchase a related tool kit. See the equipment chapter for more detail.
OK thanks again,
But my question was about "When I made a trick attack" can I use stealth even if there's just an empty place?
Using computers for trick attack doesn't work if there are no computers around, as listed in the hacker specialization.
Using stealth for a trick attack does not have any specific requirements attached to it. It is not the Hide task of the stealth skill, and you do not gain any of the benefits that you would gain by hiding.
OK thanks again,
But my question was about "When I made a trick attack" can I use stealth even if there's just an empty place?
You can trick attack using stealth in a wide open field.
For computers there must be a computer nearby. You can carry a computer on your person.
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You probably want to spend skill points in your specialization skill. .
You don't want to do this, because you get skill points in your specialization skills for free at each level.
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Hello I just bought the core rule but there is some question I can't figure out myself.
1) The insight bonus from operative's Edge do stack with the skill focus feat?
2) I think I understand how to make a trick attack but When do I use Bluff, intimidate or stealth? And when can I use my specialization?
3) Why sometimes my specialisation gives +4 and sometimes don't?
1) No, they don't stack.
2 & 3) You get to decide which to use from your options. For example, I have an explorer specialization character who has a +9 to Survival, so when using Survival for trick attack I get a +13 instead of the +11 I would get from Stealth. So I am going to always use Survival, because it always gives me the biggest bonus. The +4 gives me a motivation to keep my Survival high, instead of just focusing on Stealth (which is pretty much always going to be high for an operative, so doesn't need any extra bonus). For flavor, I try to treat this Survival trick attack as me using the terrain to my advantage in some way (diving behind a bush and popping out the other side or something) or recognizing a weak point on a creature that I can target, based on my extensive hunting experience.
Wahou, Ok thanks for all this informations !
One last question and I think Ill got every things I didn't understand.
Does the extrat dommage from "trick attack" multiplie if I got a crit or not? (Like "sneak attack" in pathfinder )
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Wahou, Ok thanks for all this informations !
One last question and I think Ill got every things I didn't understand.
Does the extrat dommage from "trick attack" multiplie if I got a crit or not? (Like "sneak attack" in pathfinder )
Yes, you roll trick attack damage twice if you roll a critical hit.
You don't want to do this, because you get skill points in your specialization skills for free at each level.
You probably want to spend skill points in your specialization skill. .
...missed that.
Operatives really are ridiculous skill monkeys aren't they?
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Yes. Mistakes were made.
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I think the rest of the operative chassis is overvalued enough that the skills aren't actually overdone. If starship combat didn't exist, if Solarions and Mystics didn't have issues with it, or any other class (one Mystic excluded) got insight bonuses to Piloting without a feat, operatives would get a lot less grief on this front. And starship combat is the issue there, not the operative.
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It's not the free skill ranks that's the problem, it's the operative's edge to all skills that's the problem. Operatives are often "by accident" as good at skills that other classes had to specialize in because it's supposed to be their niche. It's fine for operatives to be really good at a couple of skills; the problems is that they're also good at the skill other people were supposed to shine with.
Its supposed to be jack of all trades master of none.
Operatives are more jack of all trades master of all trades..
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It's not the free skill ranks that's the problem, it's the operative's edge to all skills that's the problem. Operatives are often "by accident" as good at skills that other classes had to specialize in because it's supposed to be their niche. It's fine for operatives to be really good at a couple of skills; the problems is that they're also good at the skill other people were supposed to shine with.
I think skills don't or shouldn't matter much for enjoyment of the game. And because of rational attribute point priorities for the various classes it's not even very true that Operatives exceed other classes in "their" skills except for dex skills that no one else cares about anyway and the specialty that the Operative chose. Piloting is a special but limited case of a thing that people care about but almost no one else can compete with.
Most of the fun of playing is combat and using cool abilities, and the other classes have better cool abilities or better combat performance. The Envoy even has the potential for better skill performance on the int and social skills side of things.
Operative skills mainly serve as a backstop to makes sure you can do the utilitarian necessities of adventuring. I do not weep for the Mechanic/Technomancer who is -1 to +1 points better than the hacker speciality operative at Engineering/Computers checks at low level and 2-3 points better at mid to high level, nor the Solarion who wishes he was a better liar or bully. It's more important that the party has someone who can get the trash taken out to the curb so the important stuff can happen.
Mystics and envoys can get higher skill modifiers than operatives, right?
Seems to me the only thing operative's edge really does is let you go first more often and keep you from having any terrible skill modifiers anywhere. It shines better when you select class abilities that allow you to add your edge bonus elsewhere.
Mystics and envoys can get higher skill modifiers than operatives, right?
Seems to me the only thing operative's edge really does is let you go first more often and keep you from having any terrible skill modifiers anywhere. It shines better when you select class abilities that allow you to add your edge bonus elsewhere.
Mystics can be +1 over an Operative, Envoys have a higher average with a potential for more upside but a risk of being lower.
Operatives can double their edge for creature identification, untrained skills, hiding concealed weapons, and trap finding. Plus they can add it to poison/disease saves. None of those step on other classes toes in important ways.
Well, mystics can have a higher modifier in their connection skills at very high level. The first point where connection skill pulls ahead of operative's edge is level 14.
I think skills don't or shouldn't matter much for enjoyment of the game.There are groups that play like that; there's also a very significant contingent of groups that DON'T play like that; for a lot of groups, skills absolutely do (and should) matter for enjoyment of the game - because that's the kind of game they're playing.
It's a bad idea to make sweeping proclamations about how the game works based on what you personally enjoy.
I appreciate a good nonsequitor as much as the next guy, but I'm also sorry you think a personal opinion is a sweeping proclamation about how something works.
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I think skills don't or shouldn't matter much for enjoyment of the game.
Maybe you don't personally care. I and many others do. If skills don't matter for enjoying the game, why are they even in the book?
And because of rational attribute point priorities for the various classes it's not even very true that Operatives exceed other classes in "their" skills except for dex skills that no one else cares about anyway and the specialty that the Operative chose. Piloting is a special but limited case of a thing that people care about but almost no one else can compete with.
Most of the fun of playing is combat and using cool abilities, and the other classes have better cool abilities or better combat performance. The Envoy even has the potential for better skill performance on the int and social skills side of things.
Operative skills mainly serve as a backstop to makes sure you can do the utilitarian necessities of adventuring. I do not weep for the Mechanic/Technomancer who is -1 to +1 points better than the hacker speciality operative at Engineering/Computers checks at low level and 2-3 points better at mid to high level, nor the Solarion who wishes he was a better liar or bully. It's more important that the party has someone who can get the trash taken out to the curb so the important stuff can happen.
Most operatives I've seen favor Intelligence. Android and Ysoki are popular operative races, getting bonuses to both Dex and Int and in the case of Ysoki also to skills you can use for Trick Attack. With an Intelligence of 14-16 they have more skill points than they know what to do with, and typically take Computers and Engineering, because they're class skills you'd be good at. And just like that they get into the mechanic's or technomancer's niche.
I built a Detective specialization operative so I went Wisdom-based instead, and all of a sudden you're among the best in all Wisdom-related skills. You might be one point behind in ability scores compared to a mystic, but your operative's edge scales faster across most levels so even on Connection skills you're tied or beating them. And you're also beating them on every other skill that's not a primary ability score for you two.
I'll agree that operative's edge is a bit too fast. Possibly even twice as fast as it needs to be.
If it was halved, but left at it's current rate for specialist skills and initiative, sure. As is, until past level 10, you look to the operative unless there is a charisma envoy for face skills, a wisdom mystic for wisdom skills, and intelligence technomancer for intelligence skills, etc...
