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Hello!
This was my first Paizocon (and actually my first con) and I attended pretty much entirely with the intention to learn as much as I possibly could about Pathfinder 2nd edition. I got to play in Mark's "Unreality Incursion" and I attended every 2nd edition panel that didn't conflict with another panel. With that said, below are some of my thoughts about what I've learned between my 2nd edition playtime in the delve(s), The Unreality Incursion, and all of the panels I attended.
1. Level one is dangerous!
During our level 1 delve, I was playing the Alchemist (Fumbus) and I got critted by the ogre. Granted, said ogre was a high CR for 4 level (CR 3 I believe) but it hit me so hard I got killed in a single hit. 32 damage! Death and dying rules or not, you're still dead if you're killed by a hit that exceeds your HP by X2 your total.
I worry a little for level 1 characters, but it being as deadly as it is is definitely dramatic. The extra HP from ancestries helps for sure, just gotta worry a bit more about positioning, tactics and scouting.
2. Monsters are easy to run
Boy, it's hard to explain just how intuitive and natural it is to run monsters. When playing "The Unreality Incursion" we were playing with monster templates direct from the Bestiary, two angels (one fallen and one not), an Axiomite, an Archon and an Azata. Running each monster was easy as pie because of the action system. There's always SOMETHING you can do with three actions, even if it's just moving around.
3. Possibilities!
One of the things I'm most excited about, and something that the designers iterated a few times throughout the weekend was that the ability to expand upon the new system is a lot more integrated. During the "Design Philosophy behind Pathfinder 2nd Edition" panel they discussed how a lot of the bulk from 1st edition was from the fact that certain systems were bolted ON TOP of D&D 3. Now that we have a new system with ample space for new design implementations, we can expect splat books and expansions to be plentiful and INTUITIVE.
The new Game Mastery guide that will be coming out this next coming winter will have some additional systems to add on to the existing stuff. We can expect because of the rules being more streamlined when we do get more stuff in the future its going to be more easily integrated into the core system. Things like proficiency being baked into all aspects of the game allows us to better onboard new things onto the existing system.
I think, ultimately what it comes down to for me is that the new system is going to support things like more expansion while note getting bogged down. 2nd edition is fun. Fun enough that if there's something that I can't quite get out of the core rulebook, I know that I'll be able to easily homebrew whatever I need while I'm waiting for additional options to become available in the future through the official pathways.
What are your thoughts? What excites you most about 2nd edition? What do you hope to see next?
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Cheers! You guys did a great job in Unreality Incursion. I like it when the players make me (and each other) laugh out loud.
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what could the classes do at level 1?
A lot more actually than you would expect. Damage cantrips are actually pretty good from what I've seen.
The third action is never a "dead* action because you might still be able to move, raise a shield or do something else of the sort.
Being able to attack more than once at level 1 is quite impactful, nailing crits at level 1 is sometimes worth the risk even if landing a hit is EXTREMELY difficult, you still have a chance!
Casters aren't completely useless after going nova and spending all of their spells because of the attack cantrips.
Heal is great for clerics! The ability to spend different amounts of actions to get more benefits is extremely useful.
Level 1 is dangerous, but there are ways to handle things if you take care and are smart about things. It feels like there are a lot of options available even at level 1, even if they're small ones.
Cheers! You guys did a great job in Unreality Incursion. I like it when the players make me (and each other) laugh out loud.
Thanks Mark! It was a blast, playing Elly was super fun :) glad I was able to bring friends to sit in on the fun.
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Point #2 is easily the single most exciting thing about second edition for me. I like second edition monster design more than I like the 3-action economy. I've said this before, but just reading the second edition bestiary literally changed how I think about monster design. Monsters that are easy to run but still do cool stuff is awesome. Not having to decide which of twenty pointless, bolted on spell like abilities to use is awesome. Being able to look at a monster stat block and immediately go "this is what the monster does, this is why it's unique" is awesome. Being able to throw together a Wizard adversary and just go "okay, these are the spells he'll actually cast, who cares about the rest; here's some hit point and stats and here's a couple things that sound like wizard class features" instead of spending hours building the character like a PC is awesome.
As someone who almost always GMs, that is a huge selling point of the new edition for me.
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Hear hear.Point #2 is easily the single most exciting thing about second edition for me. I like second edition monster design more than I like the 3-action economy. I've said this before, but just reading the second edition bestiary literally changed how I think about monster design. Monsters that are easy to run but still do cool stuff is awesome. Not having to decide which of twenty pointless, bolted on spell like abilities to use is awesome. Being able to look at a monster stat block and immediately go "this is what the monster does, this is why it's unique" is awesome. Being able to throw together a Wizard adversary and just go "okay, these are the spells he'll actually cast, who cares about the rest; here's some hit point and stats and here's a couple things that sound like wizard class features" instead of spending hours building the character like a PC is awesome.
As someone who almost always GMs, that is a huge selling point of the new edition for me.
Hear hear. x2
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WAIT YOU SAID HEAL IS GREAT FOR CLERICS WHAT HAPPENED TO CHANNEL TELL ME OR MAYBE IT SAID DIVINE FONT WHAT WAS IT
Oh also eternal GM as well and hear hear x3. Sorry, I get a little sidetracked on a couple things.
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This seemed like an apropos place to mention this on this subforum, since it's about my own PaizoCon round-up for 2e (and non-2e) info:
Tonight's Arcane Mark is going to be an episode full of PaizoCon round-up! Join Linda and me for a lowdown of Paizocon reveals, impressions, and news, plus ask questions in chat! Handy if you don't have time to listen to all the recordings.
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I've been watching Arcane Mark, and I absolutely love how approachable and earnest Mark is on there. It's tough to tackle some of the biggest cans of worms in the game as a developer and not come across as high handed, but Mark does a great job.
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Point #2 is easily the single most exciting thing about second edition for me. I like second edition monster design more than I like the 3-action economy. I've said this before, but just reading the second edition bestiary literally changed how I think about monster design. Monsters that are easy to run but still do cool stuff is awesome. Not having to decide which of twenty pointless, bolted on spell like abilities to use is awesome. Being able to look at a monster stat block and immediately go "this is what the monster does, this is why it's unique" is awesome. Being able to throw together a Wizard adversary and just go "okay, these are the spells he'll actually cast, who cares about the rest; here's some hit point and stats and here's a couple things that sound like wizard class features" instead of spending hours building the character like a PC is awesome.
As someone who almost always GMs, that is a huge selling point of the new edition for me.
As the eternal GM of my group this is a big deal for me too. Part of why I haven't run PF1 for two years was the unnecessary baggage in most encounters post level 5. While I've been enjoying running lighter systems (and Starfinder!) it will be nice to get to a streamlined but still crunchy fantasy game.
Mentioning Starfinder, I can't wait for the monster creation rules. Mostly homebrewing my Akiton campaign I was able to make dozens of monsters in Starfinder in the time it would have taken to make 2 in PF1.
Running a mid level creature was easy and intuitive and fun, I'm looking forward to GMing later this year. The simplicity is quite empowering; to have the ability to keep things moving the way they do in 2e is really great.
On the note of crunch, PF2 is just enough, not too much and not too little... I'm looking forward to the future to say the least.
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Point #2 is easily the single most exciting thing about second edition for me. I like second edition monster design more than I like the 3-action economy. I've said this before, but just reading the second edition bestiary literally changed how I think about monster design. Monsters that are easy to run but still do cool stuff is awesome. Not having to decide which of twenty pointless, bolted on spell like abilities to use is awesome. Being able to look at a monster stat block and immediately go "this is what the monster does, this is why it's unique" is awesome. Being able to throw together a Wizard adversary and just go "okay, these are the spells he'll actually cast, who cares about the rest; here's some hit point and stats and here's a couple things that sound like wizard class features" instead of spending hours building the character like a PC is awesome.
Hear hear!
That said, I think the three-action economy is a big part of what makes the new monster design work so damn well. It creates a structure that sweet abilities slot into really easily. But those abilities also are more interesting in the new economy.
For example, a sweet ability that took a standard (or even move) action in P1 has to be really powerful to get used, particularly by intelligent foes. That ability basically has to be worth breaking up a full attack to use, which is a lot of burden. In P2, that same ability at one action has to be worth replacing one attack at -10, which is a much smaller hurdle and lets more fun abilities sneak into the average round.
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This seemed like an apropos place to mention this on this subforum, since it's about my own PaizoCon round-up for 2e (and non-2e) info:
Tonight's Arcane Mark is going to be an episode full of PaizoCon round-up! Join Linda and me for a lowdown of Paizocon reveals, impressions, and news, plus ask questions in chat! Handy if you don't have time to listen to all the recordings.
Thanks so much for watching everyone! The Paizocon special was our best episode yet. Tomorrow's episode (10 AM PDT) is on GM tips for high level games. A lot of the focus will be on PF1 where high level games are particularly challenging to run, but also on playtest/PF2, and anything else covered in your questions!
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Might as well keep sharing as long as you guys keep enjoying: Today's episode of Arcane Mark (7PM PST) is Leshy Garden, all about the leshy phenomenon in Pathfinder and their rise from the first bestiary entry to one of the first 10 PC ancestries in PF2. Led by Linda, the "Queen of Leshies" who created both the PF1 vine leshy race and the PF2 leshy ancestry!
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So we're getting a book with 4 new ancestries? Huzzah.
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So we're getting a book with 4 new ancestries? Huzzah.
We're getting the core rule book with six, and a world guide with three. Being part of the first nine ancestries means being part of the first ten.
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So we're getting a book with 4 new ancestries? Huzzah.We're getting the core rule book with six, and a world guide with three. Being part of the first nine ancestries means being part of the first ten.
So is the first book after the world guide with a new ancestry going to have just one, or are we going to put the first ancestry (alphabetical, or however the book is organized) from that book as the 10th?
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So is the first book after the world guide with a new ancestry going to have just one, or are we going to put the first ancestry (alphabetical, or however the book is organized) from that book as the 10th?So we're getting a book with 4 new ancestries? Huzzah.We're getting the core rule book with six, and a world guide with three. Being part of the first nine ancestries means being part of the first ten.
I just like using 10 instead of 9. It is indeed also in the first 9. Technically it is #8 given alphabetically right before Lizardfolk, which is also Linda's Pathfinder Society number.
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So is the first book after the world guide with a new ancestry going to have just one, or are we going to put the first ancestry (alphabetical, or however the book is organized) from that book as the 10th?So we're getting a book with 4 new ancestries? Huzzah.We're getting the core rule book with six, and a world guide with three. Being part of the first nine ancestries means being part of the first ten.
The second World Guide, the Lost Omens Character Guide (Oct 2019), includes 3 new ancestries: (1) Hobgoblin; (2) Leshy; (3) Lizardfolk
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Human is one of the first 100 ancestries in PF2.
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Human is one of the first 100 ancestries in PF2.
Hobgoblin is the only one of the first nine ancestries that was not published in alphabetical order, starting with Dwarf and ending with Lizardfolk.
Human is one of the first 100 ancestries in PF2.Hobgoblin is the only one of the first nine ancestries that was not published in alphabetical order, starting with Dwarf and ending with Lizardfolk.
That's kind of interesting. So this means that WG2 presents its three ancestries in this order: (1) Leshy; (2) Hobgoblin; (3) Lizardfolk.
I wonder why. Any guesses, folks who know more about the lore?
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Human is one of the first 100 ancestries in PF2.Hobgoblin is the only one of the first nine ancestries that was not published in alphabetical order, starting with Dwarf and ending with Lizardfolk.That's kind of interesting. So this means that WG2 presents its three ancestries in this order: (1) Leshy; (2) Hobgoblin; (3) Lizardfolk.
I wonder why. Any guesses, folks who know more about the lore?
Nah, it goes Hobgoblin, Leshy, Lizardfolk. It's just a random fact (Hobgoblin comes before Human alphabetically, even though it was "7th") to respond to a random fact of humans being in the first 100, it got me thinking that they were 6 of 6. It's statistically surprising, given how many names in most of our books start with 'S' and the like, that an ancestry starting with "Hu" is the sixth out of six alphabetically in the core and then the next three all are H or after.
Human is one of the first 100 ancestries in PF2.Hobgoblin is the only one of the first nine ancestries that was not published in alphabetical order, starting with Dwarf and ending with Lizardfolk.That's kind of interesting. So this means that WG2 presents its three ancestries in this order: (1) Leshy; (2) Hobgoblin; (3) Lizardfolk.
I wonder why. Any guesses, folks who know more about the lore?
Does that necessarily follow? In the CRB we've got Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Halfling, Human (with Half-Elf and Half-Orc heritages). In Lost Omens we get Hobgoblin, Leshy, Lizardfolk. But Hobgoblin should have come before Human.
Edit: Drat, ninja'd by Mark.
Nah, it goes Hobgoblin, Leshy, Lizardfolk. It's just a random fact (Hobgoblin comes before Human alphabetically, even though it was "7th"). It's statistically surprising, given how many names in most of our books start with 'S' and the like, that an ancestry starting with "Hu" is the sixth out of six alphabetically in the core and then the next three all are H or after.Human is one of the first 100 ancestries in PF2.Hobgoblin is the only one of the first nine ancestries that was not published in alphabetical order, starting with Dwarf and ending with Lizardfolk.That's kind of interesting. So this means that WG2 presents its three ancestries in this order: (1) Leshy; (2) Hobgoblin; (3) Lizardfolk.
I wonder why. Any guesses, folks who know more about the lore?
Ah, gotcha.
I really hope we get a diagetic name other than "lizardman" like how we can call troglodytes "xulgaths".
Also, whereabouts on Golarion are all the lizardpeople living? We've got a couple of Hobgoblin nations, but I don't recall any large concentrations of lizard people.
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I really hope we get a diagetic name other than "lizardman" like how we can call troglodytes "xulgaths".
Also, whereabouts on Golarion are all the lizardpeople living? We've got a couple of Hobgoblin nations, but I don't recall any large concentrations of lizard people.
The name is Iruxi, which we know from the Oblivion Oath streams
Duergar anyone...
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Duergar anyone...
I'd be down with some Svirfneblin love, gotta recreate my super awesome Svirfneblin Monk.
There's so many fun Ancestries left to add, that's for sure. Kobold? Orc? Drow? Half-Giant?
The DM for our Iron Gods campaign gave us the option to use Psionics if we wanted, and while nobody opted for the classes, I did end up going with a Half-Giant Barbarian, which fit the setting well enough, as far as I could tell.
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I really hope we get a diagetic name other than "lizardman" like how we can call troglodytes "xulgaths".
Also, whereabouts on Golarion are all the lizardpeople living? We've got a couple of Hobgoblin nations, but I don't recall any large concentrations of lizard people.
Common in the Mwangi Expanse, lizardfolk also dominate the southern part of the Sodden Lands, parts of the River Kingdoms, and the region of Droon in southern Garund.
:3
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Nah, it goes Hobgoblin, Leshy, Lizardfolk. It's just a random fact (Hobgoblin comes before Human alphabetically, even though it was "7th") to respond to a random fact of humans being in the first 100, it got me thinking that they were 6 of 6. It's statistically surprising, given how many names in most of our books start with 'S' and the like, that an ancestry starting with "Hu" is the sixth out of six alphabetically in the core and then the next three all are H or after.Human is one of the first 100 ancestries in PF2.Hobgoblin is the only one of the first nine ancestries that was not published in alphabetical order, starting with Dwarf and ending with Lizardfolk.That's kind of interesting. So this means that WG2 presents its three ancestries in this order: (1) Leshy; (2) Hobgoblin; (3) Lizardfolk.
I wonder why. Any guesses, folks who know more about the lore?
And none of them have a name that starts with a letter after L.
So clearly that means you need to bring in Ratfolk as soon as possible to balance things out in the alphabet a bit. And because they're awesome. Unlike the other critters getting a more "Proper name" like Lizardfolk being Iruxi and Troglodytes Xulgaths, I think Ratfolk should keep that name. There's the name Ysoki, but that's for the Akiton Ratfolk who are kind of culturally distinct. The Golarion ones don't even have their own language, and just going along with other cultures is their thing, so just sticking to Ratfolk works for them. "Yeah, we're folk who look like rats. That works. Now, do you want to buy anything?"
I'd be down with some Svirfneblin love, gotta recreate my super awesome Svirfneblin Monk.
Well, in the playtest Svirfneblin were a Gnome heritage. Not sure if they're still one of the base heritages in the core book, but they might be. I'm kind of hoping not, because it felt like the incentives were going to mean like 75% of all gnomes were Svirfneblin instead of reflecting that they're rare (at least on the surface). But they are cool, and unpronounceable. So having them available would be good, I just don't think they should be one of the default heritages in the core book.
the name Ysoki, but that's for the Akiton Ratfolk who are kind of culturally distinct. The Golarion ones don't even have their own language,That may have been true in 1st edition but it remains to be seen in 2e.
Honestly, I'd find that to be a bit sad if it changed. I like the idea that they're kind of a people without history, a language or a strongly defined culture. Their mindset is to just kind of go along with other cultures while still doing their own thing, and focusing on the present more than the past. They're kind of like eternal immigrants, constantly assimilating into the local culture wherever they go. It's one of the quirks that makes me really like the ratfolk. Well, also I'm a rodent fan and like the idea of rat-people. Particularly rat-people who aren't evil plague-spreading monsters. That trope is stale (the plague archetypes for them in PF1 kind of make me roll my eyes a little, it's backsliding into Skaven). The Nezumi from Legend of the Five Rings and the 3.0 Oriental Adventures are another fun one. A bit of a different flavor in some regards, but some overlap. Also they're both adorable but also badass.
A ratfolk language would kind of make them more of a 'normal' ancestry than the vagabond people they currently are.
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Another thing is that they were introduced in a Bestiary i believe, and thus why they have no culture/history for the most part.
But even that aside, culture is nurture, not nature, it’s not genetic.
*looks at all the rat art i have*
I too like them, the Ysoki, the Skaven, and Nezumi (though mostly from Ink Eyes), so I'm okay with Paizo making their own thing for them rather than leaving them with nothing.
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the name Ysoki, but that's for the Akiton Ratfolk who are kind of culturally distinct. The Golarion ones don't even have their own language,That may have been true in 1st edition but it remains to be seen in 2e.Honestly, I'd find that to be a bit sad if it changed. I like the idea that they're kind of a people without history, a language or a strongly defined culture. Their mindset is to just kind of go along with other cultures while still doing their own thing, and focusing on the present more than the past. They're kind of like eternal immigrants, constantly assimilating into the local culture wherever they go. It's one of the quirks that makes me really like the ratfolk. Well, also I'm a rodent fan and like the idea of rat-people. Particularly rat-people who aren't evil plague-spreading monsters. That trope is stale (the plague archetypes for them in PF1 kind of make me roll my eyes a little, it's backsliding into Skaven). The Nezumi from Legend of the Five Rings and the 3.0 Oriental Adventures are another fun one. A bit of a different flavor in some regards, but some overlap. Also they're both adorable but also badass.
A ratfolk language would kind of make them more of a 'normal' ancestry than the vagabond people they currently are.
This description makes me think of Halflings TBT.
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The name is Iruxi, which we know from the Oblivion Oath streamsI really hope we get a diagetic name other than "lizardman" like how we can call troglodytes "xulgaths".
Also, whereabouts on Golarion are all the lizardpeople living? We've got a couple of Hobgoblin nations, but I don't recall any large concentrations of lizard people.
That's what I figured, but Mark is explicitly using the name Lizardfolk in this thread, which is confusing things.
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That's what I figured, but Mark is explicitly using the name Lizardfolk in this thread, which is confusing things.The name is Iruxi, which we know from the Oblivion Oath streamsI really hope we get a diagetic name other than "lizardman" like how we can call troglodytes "xulgaths".
Also, whereabouts on Golarion are all the lizardpeople living? We've got a couple of Hobgoblin nations, but I don't recall any large concentrations of lizard people.
I suspect the ancestry will be called "Lizardfolk" in the book, with a sentence somewhere in the description that mentions "Also known as Iruxi in their own tongue..." or something like that.
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Since we're getting the time jump, I think it would be cool if the Ysoki from Akiton made their way through some underground, magical gateways to Golarion and started a cultural renaissance with the Golarion Ratfolk. Also, they could be instigating inter-planetary adventures both directions through the gateways, causing adventurers to go to Akiton to face threats there. Then, we could get some Barsoom-style adventuring material for Akiton and other worlds without having to resort to spaceships. Also, I want to see the android and kasatha races get some love for some adventuring in Numeria, post-Iron Gods AP.
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The same could be said for literally everything (that hasn't been confirmed) its a non arguement.the name Ysoki, but that's for the Akiton Ratfolk who are kind of culturally distinct. The Golarion ones don't even have their own language,That may have been true in 1st edition but it remains to be seen in 2e.
Oh but it is :3
Keep an eye out for all the little changes you might otherwise glance over.
I mean, do we know how essentially the same people got on both Golarion and Akiton? Did someone learn interplanetary teleport? Wander through the wrong Aiudara? Highly improbable parallel evolution? Did a Wizard do it?
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I mean, do we know how essentially the same people got on both Golarion and Akiton? Did someone learn interplanetary teleport? Wander through the wrong Aiudara? Highly improbable parallel evolution? Did a Wizard do it?
I honestly forget if it's canon or headcanon, but I always assumed humans were introduced to Golarion through a Vault in Orv. The Vaultbuilders grabbed species from all over the place to stock them, so humans could have been spread quite a bit during the Vault building process.
There are also a couple of other places humans show up (like the Azlanti Star Empire in Starfinder) that are more explicitly due to human magic. So they've spread out further since then.
I thought Golarion canon was that aboleths created humans?
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I thought Golarion canon was that aboleths created humans?
They elevated humans from neanderthal era to the Azlanti Empire. Humans were stupid cave dwellers before the aboleths came along... Is the story they peddle, no one knows for SURE (aboleths have an immense sense of grandeur after all). But no, human were a species before the aboleths, but they had done nothing of significance before they came along.
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Did a Wizard do it?
Always blame it on the Wizard