Hey y'all. I'm currently writing my very own Pathfinder module, titled Black Plains. I already posted a thread exploring the plot in this same section (go over there if you wanna read it), so I won't go into too much detail here.
I need ideas for monsters! The setting is a destroyed town, recently ransacked by gnolls. The PCs are a little bit into level 4 when they arrive, will reach level 5 after clearing out the town, and will reach level 6 after liberating the town's fortress called Grasswall. The backstory, to sum it up, is that a horde of gnolls recently overran the town and pushed the hobgoblin defenders of the fortress deeper into the catacombs, where they're now under siege. The gnolls have a connection to Shub-Niggurath, and Lovecraftian elements are a large part of this module. Here are the main areas:
The town of Andalee. The initial area, overrun by gnolls and their monstrous minions.
Grasswall. A century-old fortress run by LN hobgoblins, but recently captured by gnolls. Its true purpose is to keep the Maidens Three (below) contained.
Tomb of the Crippling Gaze. Ancient crypt home to an artifact that tethers the souls of those near it to Nyarlathotep's power and raises those powerful enough as unique undead when they die.
So far, the monsters I've got are:
Gnoll cleric of Shub-Niggurath 7, the co-leader of attack, and currently in the keep - CR 6
Mutant leucrotta named Stagtearer, the gnolls' siege beast, encountered just outside of the town gates - CR 6
The Fangs, a group of 2nd level gnoll barbarians serving as elite troops, encountered both in Grasswall and in the ruined town - CR 3
Nukariax, a tarnished (variant) young brass dragon and leader of the raid - CR 7
The Maidens Three, founders of the town who became undead and now haunt the tombs below the keep, and serve as the secret "final boss" of this part of the module. Advanced unique allip (CR 6), advanced unique poltergeist (CR 5), and an advanced unique shadow (CR 5).
Human zombies!, lots of these in the town square, raised by the gnoll priest.
The themes I'm exploring in this module are cosmic horror and subversion of monstrous tropes. Hobgoblins are good, dragon is bad, etc. Any suggestions will be appreciated as long as they're in the reasonable CR range for the levels they're encountered at. I need help keeping things interesting and throwing some memorable encounters at the PCs. Not all of this section will be combat, but that's a large portion of it.
Thanks for any help.
Here's the link to the module itself so far (I'm not sure if it works, so tell me if it doesn't) if you want to leave suggestions.
Since you're doing cosmic horror, you need to check out the Cthulhu Mythos for Pathfinder book for ideas. It compiles all of the Lovecraftian creatures in one book and a few have alternate versions.
I'll give it a look if I can find it. I don't want to overdose my players on mythos content, though, so non-mythos ideas are useful as well.
The gnolls used a variety of monsters in their raid, so any of those you listed could be present. I'll definitely use some.
The true leader behind the gnoll raids, as well as the BBEG, is a unique mothman with the advanced and divine templates. He has access to all sorts of vermin and otherworldly creatures that he can send out from his lair. The gnolls have been spending most of their time recovering from the raid, testing the defenses of the hobgoblins below, and eating the corpses of those slain. I plan to include some of the slain hobgoblins (ones that the PCs have heard of and were supposed to meet with) raised as undead for the PCs to put down.
Hey, this is Lovecraft we're talking about here. Thoughts can be just as deadly as a bunch of tentacles.
Don't know if this is too generic, but gnolls tend to breed hyenas and dire hyenas. You could throw the mutant template or something on them.
Also pugwampis are known to follow gnolls around despite gnolls hating them.
This might be too close to the random encounter charts, I'll see if I come up with better ideas with more sleep.
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If you want flying threats, why not use perytons? They're pretty savage and could be pretty dangerous either in groups or with templates.
PS: Gibbering Mouthers are both classic and CR appropriate, probably in the Mothman's caverns.
So there's so many fun and flavorful monsters associated with Shub-Niggurath but they're either too high CR, 3PP, or both.
A star vampire might be fun to put in the morlock caverns. They're creepy, and have all the right tools to make a memorable solo fight all on their own.
You could put the young template on them and have 2 for a CR7 fight, or the giant template on just one for an equal CR and equally horrifying encounter. Especially if you use the unrevised giant template...
I'd suggest giving the morlocks class levels, particularly something with sneak attack.
The morlocks are led Nem-Hos, a stalker/assassin. The others in his tribe are 1st level rogues. They're small sized (used to be gnomes) and have been granted greater intelligence as part of their proximity to the altar in Mozerah's cave, to fit with their story and make them a real threat (Also to boost Nem-Hos' death attack DC). I plan to add some mutated vermin scuttling around in the caves, probably more as a thematic thing to add an alien feel than as a real encounter. My plan for them is to have a long tunnel studded with small-sized side tunnels 7 feet up, where they can make leaping attacks as they jump from one side tunnel to the other and stab at PCs below them. The side tunnels would be connected to each other, and also to the tribe's main sleeping/storage area.
A giant star vampire could definitely serve as a body disposal system/bruiser for Mozerah... maybe that's part of how he raises the Stillborn- the star vampire drains their blood first. This module so far is lacking in big enemies, and sometimes it's just so satisfying to plonk down something Huge.
If you want an outsider, a Pairakas Div would fit thematically and CR wise. Personally I love the Hounds of Tindalos and they're more or less the right CR, but you'd only be able to afford the party to fight one. Demons or daemons can also make good summoned extraplanar muscle, though I don't think that's what you're going for here.
Mozerah has no way to summon stuff. The creatures that are in the cave with him are a result of the altar's power to attract monsters, not his own.
I'm not a fan of mixing outsiders and mythos elements, although a paraika definitely fits with Shub-Niggurath's fertility aspect. The two biggest themes of this module are mixing old-school adventure- orcs, gnolls, dragons, and forgotten tombs- and Lovecraftian elements.
I'm mostly throwing stuff against the wall and seeing what sticks. Feel free to ignore any and all suggestions.
I've been going through the strange aeons bonus bestiaries, and have found the following:
Pallid wriggler swarm CR2
Swimming Eye swarm CR4
Byakhee CR4
Wamp CR6
Child of Yog-Sothoth CR7
In regards to vermin, I'm a sucker for Worm that Walks, especially made from weird variants like centipedes, spiders, or cockroaches.
Giant vermin are thematic but pretty low CR. You could add them in to spice up morlock fights, or add templates to them. Or both.
I forgot about worms that walk! I love the creepy bastards. Maybe one of them is made of pallid wrigglers, and controls the swarms around him.
Don't worry about what sticks and what doesn't- you'll already be seeing some of your suggestions in the module soon. :p
I meant I was just throwing out ideas with no expectation that they'd be used. I'm glad you've found some of my suggestions helpful!
Also, speaking of creepy humanoid shaped vermin, behold: the Xenopterid!
They're a little high CR for your needs at CR7, but have a ton of nasty and weird abilities. Not sure how your Mothman would recruit them as they're mindless, and they might overlap too much appearance wise, but I thought it was worth mention.
Maybe Mozerah has managed to recruit one as a bodyguard or guardian?
Oh, also: if you want to buff your morlocks with bonus "drums in the deep" creepiness, maybe have a few with Skald levels (with the War Drummer). That'll give relatively low level mooks a little more kick, and the horror of having drums beating resounding throughout the caverns with no way to know the source is pretty fantastic. Plus it gives the Morlocks a little spellcasting without going full caster.
As an added bonus to balance, undead and vermin won't get the buffs. But the sound might attract their attention...
I love drums in the deep. I don't remember where I heard of it first, but I've wanted to set it up ever since. Thanks for reminding me to do that. :p
That would be the book that started the whole genre, Lord of the Rings. Mines of Moria specifically.
I meant the war drummer archetype for Skald. You could also make them regular Skalds, but what's the fun in that?
While adding every single monster might seem difficult, I'm currently having a field day with this random encounter table. :p
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Revised stat block for Mozerah! I'm a bit worried that he's too difficult... tell me what you think. I want this fight to be incredibly challenging, but not impossible.
Mozerah the Lightdrinker - CR 10/MR 2
Advanced unique arcane mythic mothman
CE medium monstrous humanoid
Init +10
Senses: see in darkness, perception +20
Aura: mind-rending gaze (30 ft., DC 21)
DEFENSE
AC 24 (+2 deflection, +6 dex, +6 natural), touch 18, flat-footed 18
hp 141 (11d10+66)
Fort +10, Ref +13, Will +13
Defensive Abilities: profane thoughts SR 21
OFFENSE
Speed: 30 ft., fly 60 ft. (good)
Melee: 4 claws +17 (1d8+3 plus grab), proboscis +12 touch (lightdrinker)
Special Attacks: horrid embrace (DC 21), lightdrinker, mythic magic, mythic power (4/day, surge +1d6)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 12th, concentration +18)
Constant: blur
At-will: misdirection (DC 18), ghost sound (DC 16), detect thoughts (DC 18)
3/day: improved invisibility, major image (DC 19), modify memory (DC 18), nightmare (DC 21), charm monster (DC 20), shadow walk (DC 22), suggestion (DC 19)
1/day: mind fog (DC 21), mislead (DC 22), project image (DC 23)
Arcane Spell-Like Abilities (CL 11th, concentration +18)
1/day: dominate person (DC 23), black tentacles, greater dispel magic, darkvault
STATISTICS
Str 16 (+3), Dex 23 (+6), Con 20 (+5), Int 25 (+7), Wis 23 (+6), Cha 22 (+6)
Base Atk +11, CMB +16 (+22 grapple), CMD 32
Feats: Improved Initiative, Flyby Attack, Improved Natural Weapon (claw), Great Fortitude, Power Attack, Weapon Finesse, Extra Mythic Power
Skills: stealth +20, fly +28, bluff +17, sense motive +10, perception +20, survival +10, knowledge (nature, arcana, dungeoneering, planes, religion) +21, knowledge (local) +11, spellcraft +11, climb +7, intimidate +10, linguistics +17
Languages: Common, Aklo, Undercommon, Gnoll, Abyssal, Celestial, Sylvan, Terran, Draconic, Giant, Orc, Aboleth, Elder Thing, Mi-go, Necril, Dwarven, Elven, Sylvan, telepathy 100 ft.
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Horrid Embrace (Su)
As part of the action made to maintain a grapple, Mozerah can fold his wings around a target and subject it to otherworldly visions. The target must make a DC 21 will save or take 1d4 points of ability damage to all mental ability scores and become sickened for 1d6 rounds. A successful save negates the ability damage and reduces the sickened condition to 1 round. The save DC is charisma-based. This is a mind-affecting effect.
Lightdrinker (Su)
A creature hit my Mozerah’s touch attack must make a DC 20 fortitude save or become blinded for 1d4 rounds. The save DC is constitution-based.
Profane Thoughts (Su)
Mozerah gains all knowledge skills as class skills. A creature charmed or dominated by him can communicate telepathically with him over any distance. Any creature attempting to read his mind must make a DC 21 will save or take 1d4 points of wisdom damage. In addition, as a reward for his complex plotting, Shub-Niggurath has granted him a +4 profane bonus to his intelligence score. The wisdom damage is a mind-affecting effect.
Mind-Rending Gaze (Su)
Mozerah has lost his ability to commune with fate, but his baleful gaze has grown even more powerful. A creature within 30 feet that fails a DC 21 will save becomes frightened for 1d6 rounds. A creature currently suffering from a fear effect that fails its save instead takes 1d4 points of wisdom drain. This is a mind-affecting fear effect.
TACTICS
Before Combat:
Mozerah casts darkvault on his altar every day. He also casts misdirection, targeting the altar (this increases the power of his aura to strongly evil and strongly chaotic). Before creatures enter his cave (Nem-Hos warns him of this and shares PC tactics with him as they fight), he casts project image and hides behind a tapestry in his chamber.
During Combat:
Mozerah casts mind fog through his projected image. If the image remains up in later rounds, he’ll first cast greater dispel magic to strip enemies of protection from evil and other effects that provide immunity to mind control, then mind-affecting spells like dominate person, suggestion, and charm monster. He targets damage dealers with these abilities first, then once he gains control, he direct them to attack arcane spellcasters. If enemies disbelieve his projected image and search for his true body, he dismisses it and uses these same tactics, taking to the air. Note that if an enemy can pierce both his invisibility and the darkvault in the chamber, they’re subject to his mind-rending gaze. If enemies prove particularly resistant to his attempts at mental control, he instead makes flyby attacks with his proboscis and grapples enemies to drain their minds. Mozerah casts mythic versions of his spell-like abilities through his mythic spellcasting abilities, and once he runs out of uses, spends mythic power to do so.
Morale:
Mozerah fights to the death to protect his ritual.
A chunk of amber with the claw tip of a Hound of Tindalos in it. Before you summon it, you had better draw a circle around yourself. When it arrives, it will jump out of an angle and attack the nearest creature. It might first be encountered being used by a gnoll who didn't know what he was doing. Just looking at the claw tip and thinking about the creature summons it, so it's a risky item to have around.
Revised stat block for Mozerah! I'm a bit worried that he's too difficult... tell me what you think. I want this fight to be incredibly challenging, but not impossible...
The moment we've all been waiting for! I for one am excited!
For a level 3 party of four characters at normal WBL and a sane ability score distribution, that's pretty rough. Particularly the mythic spellcasting and his ability to completely negate the PCs reaching him. At this level he's got layers of defenses they probably can't deal with especially if going in blind. And that's even assuming they face him at full strength.
I don't think that the fight is technically impossible, but he's set up to face the tactics of a much higher level party. The only thing going against him is the action economy, and he's got a toolbox of ways to turn that back on the PCs.
My suggestion isn't weakening him (I haven't read the mythic versions of all his spells though) but giving the party opportunities throughout the module to learn about his abilities so when they face him they can prepare for it.
The big weakness I see is he has no way of healing, so if the PCs can do serious damage, retreat, heal up, and return he'll be at a disadvantage, though obviously he'd change up his tactics...
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The party is level 7 when they fight him. I assume you made a typo there. :p
I'm going to give the party plenty of foreshadowing- many of the bosses they fight have met or been mentally controlled by him, so they know that he's capable of casting dominate person and such. And yes, his lack of healing is a weakness, as is his low melee dpr.
Maybe I should replace his 1/day darkvault with another spell? It's so thematic for him, but negating sight (assuming no PCs have darkvision) is pretty dang powerful. Black tentacles would work, and is still pretty appropriate.
His most dangerous mythic spells are dominate person (works on those protected from evil, and he can spend mythic power to force a reroll if they save against it) and suggestion (hits a 10 foot radius burst).
Unrelated, but here's the stat block for a worm that walks made of pallid wrigglers! She'll be encountered in a pit full of her kin- the morlock tribe uses them as a waste/body disposal system, and small tunnels allow her to slither around throughout the caverns. The poor girl fell in decades ago while running from the morlocks, and was reborn as a worm that walks.
The Pale - CR 9
Female human variant worm that walks sorcerer (wildblooded) 8
NE medium vermin (augmented human)
Init +8
Senses perception +11, darkvision 60 ft., blindsight 30 ft., low-light vision
DEFENSE
AC 24 (+3 insight, +4 dex, +4 armor, +2 deflection, +1 dodge), touch 20, flat-footed 20
hp 43, fast healing 9
Fort +5, Ref +8, Will +11
Defensive Abilities: worm that walks traits DR 15/- Immune sleep, disease, poison, paralysis Resist cold 5, fire 5
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft., burrow 10 ft., fly 40 ft. (good)
Melee: slam +8 (1d4-1 plus grab) or melee touch +10
Ranged: ranged touch +8
Special Attacks: black motes 9/day (1d4+4 cold),
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 8th, concentration +14)
4th (4/day): rainbow pattern (DC 22)
3rd (6/day): fireball (DC 20), loathsome veil (DC 21), dispel magic, blink
2nd (8/day): scorching ray, see invisibility, spectral hand, glitterdust (DC 18), mirror image, touch of idiocy
1st (6/day): enlarge person (DC 17), magic missile, alarm, protection from good, mage armor, obscuring mist, unseen servant, floating disk
0 (at-will): read magic, detect magic, arcane mark, light, penumbra, spark, ghost sound (DC 18), bleed (DC 16), mage hand, prestidigitation, mending
Bloodline: Void-touched
STATISTICS
Str 9 (-1), Dex 18 (+4), Con 12 (+1), Int 10 (+0), Wis 17 (+3), Cha 22 (+6)
Base Atk +4, CMB +3 (+7 grapple), CMD 17
Feats: Dodge, Improved Initiative, Spell Focus (illusion, evocation), Greater Spell Focus (illusion), Weapon Finesse, Diehard, Eschew Materials
Skills: spellcraft +17, use magic device +17, knowledge (dungeoneering) +7, fly +22, linguistics +2, perception +11, stealth +12, sense motive +11
Languages: Common, Aklo, Undercommon
Gear: belt of incredible dexterity +2, gloves of arrow snaring
TACTICS
Before Combat
The Pale casts mage armor and alarm in the cavern attached to her lair daily. If she has time, she’ll cast mirror image, spectral hand, blink, and protection from good.
During Combat
The Pale opens combat with rainbow pattern, and flies into the air to escape melee reach. If targeted with area of effect spells, she’ll target the spellcaster first and direct her swarms to do the same. Once she’s fascinated or nauseated at least one foe with her spells, she begins to launch fireballs into their midst, not caring if she catches her swarms in the area of effect. If enemies are protected from fire, she instead casts magic missile and touch of idiocy (via her spectral hand), targeting spellcasters with the touch.
Morale
The Pale fights until reduced below 15 hp. She then discorporates (leaving her gear behind) and attempts to flee through the holes studding her chamber. She does not return.
This one is encountered with 2 pallid wriggler swarms. While this would otherwise be a very annoying and difficult fight, the swarms will stay in the refuse pit and the Pale won't attack foes if they flee (she just wants to be left alone and eat corpses).
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Populating a dungeon or three with a variety of monsters is a tricky thing at times. I popped in to say that it's worth noting that a variety of monsters isn't always a good thing. The Angry GM puts it better than I could, so I'll let him explain.
Why Mega Man is Better than Keep on the Borderlands
It is ALWAYS better to build a level from a small collection of assets mixed and match together than it is to build it from anything you want. ALWAYS. The trouble is, the reasons are not always obvious.
First of all, remember that D&D is a tactical game. One of the things that makes combat interesting is that the players can make lots of choices about how to engage. Do we close with those enemies, do we let them come to us, do we use ranged combat, melee combat, do I spend resources on a burning hands spell or just throw a cantrip, and so on and so on. Honestly, if you build combats that are tactically interesting, you’ll find most players respond really well. I’m watching a group of complete neophytes to D&D RIGHT NOW who are mainly into story and character nonetheless get excited by exploiting the tactics in the combat sections because they are learning how to exploit their tactics.
But to allow for that kind of interesting tactical play, you have to build for it. Let me give you an example. In a recent game I ran, I included these dinosaur-like raptor enemies. They were fast, but they were really good jumpers. And if they could cover enough ground before their attack (by running or jumping), they did hefty extra damage. Now, tactically speaking, that isn’t too complex to deal with. You don’t want to fight them at range because they will close quickly and do extra damage in the process. Instead, you want to get right in their faces as quickly as possible and pin them down. Or slow them down with spells or other effects.
The problem is, players generally won’t figure that s$&% out in the first fight. Or they will figure it out late in the fight, after they’ve been screwed over by the charge and jump. It wasn’t until the SECOND fight with those bastards that the players really exploited the tactics. And they felt really good about winning that second fight. Because they took far less damage.
You really can’t make any combat tactically interesting until the players start to understand how their enemies actually work. The first fight with a new opponent is never the most interesting one. The same is true for traps and other obstacles. The first pit trap is a surprise. Either it hurts the players or it doesn’t. When the party spots the second pit trap that completely blocks the hallway they need to go down, that’s the interesting one. That’s the one where they have to figure out how to cross 15 feet of hallway without touching the ground.
Speaking of pits, the third fight with those lizard monsters happened in a room that was divided in half by a ravine. The monsters could easily retreat across the ravine with their prodigious jumping skills. They started disengaging, jumping across the ravine, and then leaping back into the fray the next round to do massive damage. Suddenly, the ranged combatants became more important again with those enforced hit and run tactics.
With one ravine and one lizard monster, I created three fights that got progressively more interesting. Hell, imagine those lizard monsters in a room with pit traps.
Now, imagine I have two different lizard monsters. One spits acid. One is a jumping pouncer. Do you charge the acid spitter and leave the pouncers free to run around? Do you pin down the pouncers and suffer the acid attacks? What if those creatures have a ravine. How many different encounters can I build with acid spitters, pouncers, and ravines? I could fill a ten room dungeon with tactically interesting challenges with three elements.
And it isn’t always about adding challenge. Imagine the satisfaction when the PCs enter a small, constrained room with a couple of pouncers they can easily pin down. Suddenly, they feel powerful.
You don’t get that if room one is pouncers, room two is spitters, room three is a pit, room four is kobolds, room five is a momma dinosaur, and room six is a kobold sorcerer.
And you might say “well, it’s hard to design tactically interesting encounters, I’m not good at it, so variety is easier.” Sure, it is. But if you impose a hard-and-fast rule that you only have two monsters and one environment hazard to use and you have to fill eight rooms, you GET good at it. Because you have to. Limitations and handicaps force you to design better things.
And it isn’t just about combat. Or traps. Imagine a hazard like green slime. Green slime hides on the ceiling and plops on you and sticks to you and dissolves your skin. The first time, it’ll surprise the hell out of someone. After that, the party will start looking up. They will see it every time. How many different things can you do with green slime assuming the party is never going to be surprised by green slime again?
Try it right now. Think of how many different ways to use green slime if the party is already looking up.
On the ceiling above the door the party wants to go through. On the ceiling inside the door so the party can’t see it from outside the room. Several patches above a narrow walkway over a drop. On the ceiling above a treasure chest. On the ceiling above the pedestal that has the book that is easily dissolved by acid. Blocking a narrow hallway. See what I mean? If I told you had to use green slime four times in a dungeon, you’d HAVE TO get creative.
Something that I like doing is preparing the PCs for hard fights by having them fight similar creatures ahead of time. In a dungeon that I'm in the middle of sketching out, around other projects, there's a fight I wrote, and in fact designed much of the dungeon around, against a black pudding in a room with a resetting silver darts trap. This has to the potential to be a positively brutal fight at the level the PCs face it, so I don't spring it on them. But I can't warn them ahead of time that it's coming, either - that'd take all the fun out it.
What I'm doing is, first the PCs will fight a handful of grey oozes on their way through the dungeon. The tactics the party learns fighting the oozes are directly applicable to the pudding - they're both ambush-grapplers that melt equipment. (The adventure assumes automatic bonus progression, so it's not so bad.) The PCs'll also run into a number of the silver dart traps, in places where it'd make sense for the dungeon's creator to trap - they're built into the iron doors that protect high-security vaults, and the floors in front of the doors that are trapped are often marked with scratches from when wandering oozes or vermin set off the trap. The PCs should learn to avoid the traps pretty quickly. (Though some rooms inaccessible to bugs and oozes won't have the tell-tale floor scratches, and combats might make them position recklessly. The important thing is that the traps become a known quality before they are ever particularly dangerous.) And then they'll fight a black pudding - but not in a room with a darts trap. Only then, that the groundwork is set, would I submit a party to trap and pudding alongside, only once they know their enemy well enough to plan around it's strengths and weaknesses, despite that they didn't likely expect this scenario specifically.
Relating this to your mothman, perhaps you could introduce the party to some of his tactics ahead of time? A wizard with greater invisibility and black tentacles, an aboleth with project image and illusions and domination, a creature or five with fear auras so that the party's wised up and gotten some kind of protection against his mind-rending gaze, etc. So then when it comes down to the climatic fight with this rogue agent of fate, the PCs are forced to put together all the lessons they've learned over the course of their adventures. Heck, maybe have the dungeon leading up to the final fight deliberately evoke the bosses of days past, to put the PCs in a nostalgic mood here at the end of the adventure, to remind them of what all they've done and how far they've come.
Great advice from the Angry GM and both of you two- I'll keep that all in mind when I'm designing the encounters here. I definitely was having problems with monster variation (lots of gnolls) so I'll think of some ways to make the fights interesting instead.
The party is level 7 when they fight him. I assume you made a typo there. :p
...
Yeah, that is a typo.
Darkvault is fine, though I honestly expect the PCs to just leave and return when they can deal with it 90% of the time.
Mythic dominate person worries me a lot more. Regular dominate person can be a recipe for a TPK, and he's got a way to negate the only real defense for it at that level.
I like the Pale, but she's got a lot of very traditional (if effective) spells. I'd suggest switching them up for some more thematic and/or weird spells. Also her HP is so low that a well placed fireball could kill her on a single failed save...
Populating a dungeon or three with a variety of monsters is a tricky thing at times. I popped in to say that it's worth noting that a variety of monsters isn't always a good thing. The Angry GM puts it better than I could, so I'll let him explain...
Some of this may be a personal preference, but I'm not a big fan of the Angry GM. By his logic, Giantslayer should be the best AP Paizo has ever published... also, learning enemy tactics and preempting ambushes is what knowledge and perception checks respectively are for. I do strongly agree you should use the environment and various external factors to keep combats interesting. But monster variety (even if it's templates, class levels, different tactics or gear) is vital to keeping things from being a slog. I will also agree that placing unfit monsters just as a curveball (which is not what you've done) is a cheap GM trick.
To Asmodeus' Advocate point, I will probably adjust the random encounter chart in ruined town to have more gnolls and a lower chance of abberations, swarms, and the like.
INTERNET ATE THE REST OF MY FLIPPING POST, WILL CONTINUE WHEN I'M NOT FILLED WITH RAGE.
But the general idea is you could in addition to giving the PCs information about Mozreh the opportunity to pick up items and allies useful in the final fight. For a more optimized party the GM could just cut out these boons.
Double A Battery: that's all VERY good advice, both from you and the Angry One. There's one more reason to eschew variety for interesting tactics through limited design: birds of a feather...
I think I've covered most of this above, but I mostly agree in regards to keeping versimilitude. It's a pretty big deal to me that a particular monster have a reason to exist in the setting.
In this case I think there's plenty of reason for a range of wicked and degenerate adversaries to flock to Mozreh's banner.
Also, I'm assuming that TheGreatWot is writing this for a range of parties and not specifically tailored to his own table. With the exception of the final boss, I've found the encounters to be fairly middle of the road. I don't believe that handholding the party is always necessary (as evidenced by your party). Nor should adventures be written with the PCs triumph as all but inevitable.
Great advice from the Angry GM and both of you two- I'll keep that all in mind when I'm designing the encounters here. I definitely was having problems with monster variation (lots of gnolls) so I'll think of some ways to make the fights interesting instead.
I'm glad I helped! One of my favorite ways of adding variety with humanoid enemies (like gnolls) is a particular and (historically common!) build. Here's a variant of it for use with hyenas.
Gnoll fighter 1 (CR 2)
CE Medium humanoid (gnoll)
Init +0; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +2
DEFENSE
AC 16, touch 12, flat-footed 13 (+3 armor, +2 dex, +1 natural)
hp 17 (1d10+2d8+3)
Fort +6, Ref +2, Will +1
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee mk ranseur +5 (2d4+7/x3)
battleaxe +4 (1d8+5/x3)
Ranged throwing axe +4 (1d6+3/x3)
alchemist's fire +4
STATISTICS
Str 17, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 6
Base Atk +2; CMB +5 (+7 grapple); CMD 17 (17 vs grapple)
Feats Combat Reflexes, Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack
Skills Intimidate +1, Perception +4, Survival +4
Languages Gnoll
Gear alchemist fire (x5), chain shirt, battleaxe, mk ranseur, potion of cure light wounds (x2), potion of enlarge person, throwing axe (x6)
Characters with this build like to throw weapons until the PCs close, get their attacks of opportunity off, and then draw a one-handed weapon and grapple. Not only is this a fairly true to how medieval fights actually played out, but their versatility and the ease with which they adapt their tactics to different battlefields means there's a lot you can do with them. These ones have potions, just a quirk of how their wealth by level fell, which suits our purposes - do they drink them right away, or only after the PCs prove themselves a threat worth 50 gp to stop? Every fight with them is familiar, yet unique.
Some of this may be a personal preference, but I'm not a big fan of the Angry GM. By his logic, Giantslayer should be the best AP Paizo has ever published... also, learning enemy tactics and preempting ambushes is what knowledge and perception checks respectively are for. I do strongly agree you should use the environment and various external factors to keep combats interesting. But monster variety (even if it's templates, class levels, different tactics or gear) is vital to keeping things from being a slog.
Isn't adding variety in the form of different tactics what building from a limited asset library is all about?
I haven't actually had the chance to play Giantslayer (and haven't read it, on account of wanting to play it some time), so I can't speak for it's quality. But I don't espouse fighting identical fights one after another. Using a limited library of assets is meant to reduce slog, if not eliminate it entirely. By using the same (or similar!) monsters multiple times, the PCs are able to create and execute tactics that they simply can't if each fight is "unique", which means that it's against the unknown monsters that the PCs rely on tried, true, and boring tactics.
As a player I wouldn't want to fight a grey ooze, and then another grey ooze, and then another grey ooze, and then another grey ooze, and then another grey ooze. But if I fought a grey ooze, and then I fought two grey oozes (but that fight went pretty easily, because we knew to look for them and killed them with ranged weapons in a long hallway that supported just that), and then, feeling confident that we could handle grey oozes pretty easily as long as we saw them coming, I fought a handful of yellow musk creepers and their zombie bat swarm, and then, in the middle of the fight, I stepped on a grey ooze which grappled me, that'd be an interesting fight (and a much harder one than it originally appeared) but also a chance to apply what I know about fighting grey oozes, a chance to form a plan and pull it off without unforeseeable complications - and that's the sweetest part of a tactical game, when you have all the pieces you need to think your way out of a hairy scrape. And then I fight black puddings, stealth predators that cling to the ceiling instead of pretending to be water, with another dynamic ability to boot, and the familiar stays unfamiliar, as, when building from limited assets, it always should.
INTERNET ATE THE REST OF MY FLIPPING POST, WILL CONTINUE WHEN I'M NOT FILLED WITH RAGE.
That sucks. :(
I don't believe that handholding the party is always necessary (as evidenced by your party). Nor should adventures be written with the PCs triumph as all but inevitable.
Oh, I agree! I'm the sort of "killer GM" who'd pit a handful of low level PCs against a black pudding in a room with a trap that doubles the number of enemies they have to fight each round. But I like to set things up, I like to lay out the ground work so that the PCs understand fully just how screwed they are. To quote Wildbow's Worm:
“There are two kinds of fear, Bakuda,” Lung said. “The first is common. Fear of the unknown. A questioning fear.”
“Uh huh,” she said. He could tell he had her attention.
“This is fear of unanswered questions. If I fought him, would I win? How is he going to hurt me? Who or what is he?”
“And the other kind?”
“A fear of knowing. Of realities. If I fight him, I lose. I know him, and I quiver to be in his presence. I know he will hurt me and I know it will be the worst pain imaginable.”
Bakuda didn’t reply.
“I have found that the first is a weak fear. It breaks. It ends when you have answers, when others give you their support. The other? It is a fear that breeds itself."
stuff
So I had addressed a lot of this more elequently in the post that never was, but I think we're mostly in agreement here.
For reference, when I first started in D&D 3.5 I'd design each monster or npc statblock individually. The party faces 10 bandits? 10 statblocks. I still like to vary up NPC gear and tactics just for the sake of versimilitude.
To be fair, I actually like Giantslayer but it's been criticized (accurately) that the last three books become a giant killing slog.
I think fighting the same monster (even with varied situations, templates, tactics) gets old much faster than npcs for some reason. Don't take this the wrong way, but if I was in the dungeon you described I'd probably get burnt out on fighting oozes pretty fast.
I don't think that repetition of monsters generally leads to the PCs developing new tactics as it does the party finding the most optimal way to dispose of them and repeating it ad infinium.
I generally prefer using common monsters in new ways: chokers climbing pillars and shooting bows, morlocks jumping across chasms and through tunnels to stab stuff in midair, gnolls occupying a fort instead of attacking it, etc.
I do like to stat EVERYTHING, even if it’s just to change some feats or gear. Making stats is my favorite part of adventure building. Some of the encounters are definitely less challenging than they could otherwise be- this is because I’ve found that with my party, if I play monsters to the best of my ability, it’s too hard and they get annoyed. I love designing challenging encounters- my party appreciates a challenge only when it’s over.
I don’t think of myself as a killer GM. I just end up that way because I don’t like pulling punches, and tend to play monsters pretty tactically. That ends up leading to very tough encounters. The monster’s (ultimate) job in my book is to die, but while it’s alive, it’s gonna do its best to stay that way. I want the PCs to win, but the monster doesn’t.
The section of the PC filled with the most gnolls (the city of Ita) will have, funnily enough, more social interaction than any other part of the book. I plan to turn what seems like a constant slog through a tide of gnolls into an opportunity for the party face and scout to shine. They’ll enlist gnolls (normalCR 1 gnolls) to fight with them against the greater threat, and might be able to lead the gnolls towards a more peaceful lifestyle.
Unrelatedly, are you able to comment on the doc? I’ve seen people viewing it anonymously, but haven’t seen any comments pointing out errors, plot holes, boring parts, etc.
I've been able to comment but haven't done so yet.
I'm looking for some good dungeons to reference in my construction of Grasswall. The fortress itself is going to have a ground floor that's mostly residential and ceremonial rooms, then an upper floor that holds the armory, barracks, guard towers, and kitchen. Then there's the catacombs below the fortress (inhabited by peaceful hobgoblins) and the Great Tower that leads to a cavern that's open to the backside of the mountain that Grasswall is built into. I'm looking for a good castle or fortress map to take some inspiration from. Any ideas? My overall goal is to make infiltration of the fort more than just another slog through endless combats.
One of the biggest problems I've been having is finding a way to direct the PCs through the fortress so that they don't climb upwards to kill Nukariax before they enter the catacombs and find Slaying Bolt (I'm going to tie her into Nukariax's past and want her to be present when the PCs fight him). You can thank Artofregicide for that idea. :p
I was contemplating starting another thread for this stuff, but I've already made a bunch of those for this module.
Honestly, I like the idea that the PCs can choose between tackling the catacombs or tower first. Slaying Bolt would be a boon against Nukariax, and maybe there's something in the tower that can be used against the Maidens Three?
It's actually fun to throw enough of the same monsters at them that the curve ball gets their begrudging interest. Hera's the Pathfinder stats for the hound of tindalos. Legend lore will lead them in the direction you desire. Maybe the same idjit who has the amber, has notes from someone or a few doses of elixir of legend lore.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/hound-of-tinda los/
I love the hounds of Tindalos, unfortunately they're too high CR to fight me than one. I do like the idea that they could be sent after the PCs, possibly again and again.
The Dread Thread Necromancer strikes again! *gasp*
I feel like the module needs a giant or two. I'm also a huge fan of the mongrel giant template. A few thoughts (if you can squeeze them in):
Mongrel (Cave Giant) Ettin.
Mongrel (Mountain Giant) Ogre. Possibly with class levels or other templates?
Mongrel (Shadow Giant) Stone Giant with spiked chain.
Actual Cave Giant (class levels or mutant template?)
These could be allies of the gnolls or kept as captive siege weapons.
*activates getaway as a swift action*
I have returned after my account was assassinated on accident by the anti-spam bot.
I have a plan for an ogre kineticist named Lurtoh in the city of Ita. He'd act as a gatekeeper, and would be the first significant fight before entering the city itself. I imagine him at around CR 7.
I have returned after my account was assassinated on accident by the anti-spam bot.
I have a plan for an ogre kineticist named Lurtoh in the city of Ita. He'd act as a gatekeeper, and would be the first significant fight before entering the city itself. I imagine him at around CR 7.
I would love to see that build. I know almost nothing about kineticist but combining it with an ogre is very interesting.
I'd still like to make an argument for mongrel mountain giant. Nobody expects a big beefy boi to bust out deeper darkness, invisibility, and dimension door. Plus immunity to fear leads to some interesting questions of how that reacts with horror of the elder gods.
Here's an idea (which you can feel free to ignore):
Broken Moon
CN Female Old Mongrel (Mountain Giant) Troll Cleric of Groteus 5 (CR7).
Born of a powerful troll matriarch and a insane mountain giant doomsayer, Broken Moon was never like others of her kind. Raised in an isolated, crumbling temple Broken Moon was quick to adopt her father's faith. Visions of coming doom have compelled Broken Moon to travel to the gnoll city of Ita. Despite her obsession with the end times, she has no desire to either further or prevent apocalyptic events. Instead she spends her time proselytizing to any who will listen. Due to her impressive strength and potent regeneration, Broken Moon has little to fear from most of the denizens of Ita. Little does the aging troll know that her dreams were not inspired by her mad god but a certain mothman who has plans to turn her to his service.
When the party first meets Broken Moon she is not hostile, though will defend herself. The troll is a good source of information and minor healing, but cannot be convinced to otherwise help the party. Given time, Mozreh may well corrupt Broken Moon to his side, at which point she may become a powerful enemy.
Ooooh, I like her. She could be a neutral party in the conflict in Ita, maybe observing purely to see a society collapse from within so she can root through the rubble to find the source of her dreams.
Ooooh, I like her. She could be a neutral party in the conflict in Ita, maybe observing purely to see a society collapse from within so she can root through the rubble to find the source of her dreams.
That's exactly the idea!
If the PCs are having a rough time she can help them with healing, information, and shelter (if they'll bear her constant evangelism). On the other hand, if they're having too easy of a time she can be added as a serious challenge especially after they've already spent some of their resources. Otherwise she'll just be a neutral observer, drawn to the madness but unwilling to intervene either way.
If you do use her, you can make your own statblock but here's mine:
Broken Moon
Female Old Mongrel (Mountain Giant) Troll Cleric of Groetus 5 (CR7).
XP 3,200
CN Large humanoid (giant)
Init +2;
Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Perception +13
Defense
AC 22, touch 10, flat-footed 21; (+7 armor, +1 Dex, +5 natural, –1 size)
hp 98 (9d8+54); regeneration 5 (acid or fire)
Fort +14, Ref +3, Will +9 (+2 vs. mind affecting), immunity to fear
Offense
Speed 30 ft./20 ft. in armor
Melee mwk cold iron heavy flail +10/+5 (2d8+6), bite +4 (1d8+2);
or bite +9 (1d8+4), 2 claws +9 (1d6+4)
Space 10 ft., Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks channel positive energy (DC 13, 3d6) or channel negative energy (DC 12, 2d6) 4/day, rend (2 claws, 1d6+6)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 9th; concentration +10)
1/day Deeper Darkness, Dimension Door, Invisibility
Domain Spell-Like Abilities
6/day insane focus
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 5th; concentration +8)
3rd—bestow curse (DC16), dispel magic, flyD
2nd—blindness/deafness (DC15), bull's strength, silence, touch of idiocyD
1st—confusion (lesser)D (DC14), doom (DC14), divine favor, sanctuary (DC14), shield of faith
0 (at will)—detect magic, mending, spark, stabilize
D domain spell;
Domains Void, Insanity
Tactics
Before Combat Broken Moon prefers to cast bull's strength, divine favor, and shield of faith.
During Combat Broken Moon uses her offensive spells before attacking with her heavy flail and bite. If disarmed or facing an enemy resistant to bludgeoning she resorts to claws. Lacking a ranged attack, Broken Moon uses fly or dimension door to close the gap. She always prioritizes enemies with fire or acid but is not intimidated by them.
Morale if reduced to 25 hp or less, Broken Moon casts invisibility or deeper darkness and retreats, allowing her regeneration to heal her. Though she does not fear death, Broken Moon does not seek it and is willing to parley though will not unconditionally surrender.
Str 18, Dex 13, Con 22, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 12
Base Atk +6; CMB +11; CMD 22
Feats Intimidating Prowess, Iron Will, Skill Focus (Perception), Versatile Channeler, Vital Strike
Skills Intimidate +12, Knowledge Religion +5, Linguistics +5, Perception +13, Sense Motive +10, Spellcraft +5
Languages Aklo, Common, Giant
Combat Gear large mwk cold iron heavy flail
Other Gear large +1 breastplate, cracked dusty prism ioun stone, iron and marble holy symbol of Groetus (worth 25 gp), 150 sp
It's very late so this may be riddled with errors.
The thought of a mountain giant mating with a troll is not a pleasant one. Especially considering that the troll was the female in this case... Large vs Gargantuan. Ouch. Let's hope that trolls are stretchy.
The thought of a mountain giant mating with a troll is not a pleasant one. Especially considering that the troll was the female in this case... Large vs Gargantuan. Ouch. Let's hope that trolls are stretchy.
I did briefly consider the size logistics. You could swap the gender of the parents if that squicks you out less.
Plus enlarge person and reduce person both work on giants; thus bringing both creatures to size huge. And it lasts minutes per caster level, so 10~ minutes should be plenty of duration. Use extend spell for 20~.
The bog standard troll elder matron is a 10th level witch, but plenty of other classes get those spells too.
But in a world with magic I'm usually not very concerned with the logistics of procreation. I mean dragons interbreed with everything and have an equivalent or greater size difference, but no one bats an eye at a draconic sorcerer.
Another thought: Broken Moon carries with her a scroll of raise dead and two scrolls of restoration (with the 1,000 gp component). She keeps them in an acid resistant scroll case in her stomach, so they can't be easily pinched. Even if she's defeated in battle and looted the PCs aren't likely to find the case unless they already know she has it. These can serve a number of purposes.
Normally, Broken Moon will only offer these items to a genuine worshipper of Groetus (regardless of what cult they may belong to, she's not political). Otherwise she only offers the items for an outlandish request, such as each party member pluck out one of their eyes and all convert to the worship of Groetus.
If the party has had a really rough time or a particularly unlucky pc death, Broken Moon may offer her scrolls for a less demanding ask. On the other hand, if the party has had it too easy or rolled over a major villain so quickly they didn't have a chance to act, Broken Moon could raise them at Mozreh's subtle urgings.
I like this because it let's the GM adjust to their party, or if they're straight-laced, they can just go with the default and not feel guilty.
Anyway I won't be at all offended if my ramblings don't fit your concept.
Why don't you create an half gnoll, or a were hyena, if the assault the town and take the women's lamashu will blessings them whit this 2 the unic face of course you will need to create them whit the help of the advance race
I've already got werehyenas in Grasswall. They're called the Gorecrows.
As to the rest of your post, I can't really understand what you're trying to say.
As far as I can tell, he's suggesting creating a unique hybrid gnoll race (using race points?) from women who were taken during the raid and subsequent forced unions? Since gnolls don't breed true with other humanoids, Lamashtu would have blessed them with the ability to bear half-gnoll children.
I may have misconstrued Zepheri, but assuming they did mean half-gnolls by means of sexual violence that isn't something I'm a fan of. A half-gnoll by other means could be interesting though (magic, consensual parrying, etc).
Yeah, half-orcs get enough of that sort of allusion for my tastes. This campaign is plenty dark without the PCs slaughtering rape babies. Besides, gnolls don't want to mate with the humans in Sotrea, they want to slaughter them and feast on the remains.