Air Elemental size, Whirlwind size, and attacks on creatures

[Tangent101]

I recently got into a spirited discussion with a player concerning the Whirlwind ability. He feels that my interpretation of Whirlwind makes it OP and would result in the wipe of a party.

Here is the scenario. You have a Small Air Elemental. Its actual size in the Bestiary is "Small" but when it turns into a Whirlwind it can grow to be 20 feet tall. To me, that makes it a Large-size creature and thus if PCs fighting it fail a DC 12 Reflex save they can be swept off their feet. When I pointed out the rules allow them to attack it even in Whirlwind form he dismissed it as "everyone would be prone and unable to fight effectively."

His view is that for a CR 1 encounter, this makes it too powerful. The Air Elemental can turn into a whirlwind, pass through a dozen squares, get attacks on everyone in those squares (if they fail the first Reflex save), and then can get pulled into the vortex. This counts as multiple attacks. It does not need attack rolls to get these attacks on foes, it does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and could grab someone and drop them in trees or other terrain that makes it almost impossible to fight the Elemental.

[willuwontu]

For a level 1 party it is an extremely dangerous encounter.

• Despite it only being a DC 12 save, unless you're a rogue or other good reflex save class, you only have roughly a 50% chance of succeeding.
• The damage of 1d4+1 averages to 3.5 damage per turn, which is roughly 1/3 the HP of a level 1 character (1/2 for D6, 1/3 for D8/10, 1/4 for D12), and is dealing that damage to the whole party.
• Despite them being able to attack it, it has an AC of 17 which is relatively hard to hit for a level 1 character. On top of this it gives the players an additional -2 to hit when it traps them in the whirlwind, making it even more difficult.
• Do note that it only lasts 1 round, and takes a standard to enter, which means it has to spend a standard each turn entering the whirlwind form. Despite this, it still doesn't provoke and is repeatable.

Overall, the encounter is likely a party wipe, unless the PC's are prepared.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

Power considerations aside, the whirlwind ability doesn't say it changes the size category of the creature (and indeed it keeps it only 5' wide at the base), so I'd say it remains Small, just reshaped.

If I did want to judge its size category by its height I'd have to go with Gargantuan for 20', not Large.

[MrCharisma]

As luck would have it I was looking this up yesterday, and the answer is: "the size of the whirlwind is equal to the size of the elemental".

Although not 100% clear in the bestiary, the STORM KINDLER prestige class clarifies it for us.

Storm Shape (Su) wrote:

At 2nd level, a Storm Kindler becomes a physical embodiment of the fury of the storm. As a standard action, she can transform herself into a whirlwind (as per the universal monster rule, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 306) for a number of minutes per day equal to her Storm Kindler level.

Then if you look at the chart for the Storm Kindler it gives the following sizes:

20' - small 
30' - medium 
40' - large 
50' - huge 
60' - huge

(I found this information in THIS THREAD)

Hopefully this helps you as much as it did me.

[blahpers]

As a general rule, the only time you ought to be considering a creature's size category relative to its "actual" dimensions is when the creature is an animated object, as most objects don't have expressly defined size categories. If the ability doesn't mention a size change, it doesn't change size.