Animal Companion boosted by Domain

[keerawa]

My latest GM blob is a nagaji Mother's Fang Cavalier/Sacred Huntsmaster Inquisitor, and a devotee of the naga goddess Nalinivati. He is very proud and protective of his sacred serpent (constrictor) companion, and it would make sense for him to take the Scalykind domain. The problem is the 4th level domain power.

Serpent Companion (Ex): At 4th level, you gain the service of an animal companion. Your effective druid level for this animal companion is equal to your cleric level –2. You may choose either a viper or a constrictor snake (Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook 54) as your companion.

Now, I already have a full character-level animal companion, from the cavalier class and Sacred Huntsmaster archetype. What will happen when I become a level 4 inquisitor?

There was a fair bit of discussion around this on Paizo forums with the Animal domain, which has a similar power. The Divine Hunter archetype even has a special clause for hunters who choose the Animal domain. But there was no clear conclusion for PFS play. There are a few PFS rules and FAQs that seem to apply.

1) Only one combat pet is allowed. Even archetypes that would typically give more than one animal companion are specifically altered in PFS play to only allow one. So I definitely don't get two snakes!
2) According to this FAQ 'effective druid levels' stack. That makes sense, and it would certainly delight my character to make his companion more powerful. However, in PFS animal companions are limited to character level +1 HD, as stated in this John Compton commentary. So by level 7 I could have a level 9 companion, with 8HD, but nothing higher.
3) Perhaps I should follow the example of what happens to Divine Hunters with the Animal domain, and apply a permanent stat-boost to my companion at the level where the Serpent Companion domain power would be applied.
4) Or possibly the Serpent Companion is a dead class feature that does nothing at all. Disappointing.

How will this play out in PFS?

[BigNorseWolf]

It won t stack unless the cavalier can also have a giant snake

[keerawa]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

It won t stack unless the cavalier can also have a giant snake

The First Mother's Fang Cavalier is required to have a giant snake as a mount.

[Andy Brown]

When you hit level 4 inquisitor, you have an effective Druid level of 2.
The Cavalier gives you an effective Druid level equal to your Class level, not your character level.

So you end up with an AC two levels behind what a single class Cavalier would have.

[Andy Brown]

Andy Brown wrote:

When you hit level 4 inquisitor, you have an effective Druid level of 2.

The Cavalier gives you an effective Druid level equal to your Class level, not your character level.

So you end up with an AC two levels behind what a single class Cavalier would have.

Ignore all that, I'd missed the Sacred Huntsmaster giving you effective Druid level equal to Inquisitor level.

That being said, I'd say that the Domain power isn't giving you anything. Your effective Druid level is coming from your Inquisitor levels, therefore it'd overlap with the Huntsmaster levels, not stack.

[BigNorseWolf]

keerawa wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

It won t stack unless the cavalier can also have a giant snake

The First Mother's Fang Cavalier is required to have a giant snake as a mount.

doh sorry, what i meant is the inquisitor can have a giant snake mount.

Instead of the usual choices for a cavalier’s mount, mother’s fangs ride on giant riding constrictors.

These use the statistics of the constrictor snake druid animal companion, except that they are suitable mounts and begin as size Large at 1st level with no other adjustments to their abilities or statistics based on this size change.

You may choose either a viper or a constrictor snake (Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook 54) as your companion.

If you want the levels to stack the critters need to be on both class lists. A regular cavalier can't just dip druid to ride around on a full cavalier mount tiger.

Which makes that a REALLY headachy cornercase.

On the one hand the first mothers fang is a constrictor snake.

On the other hand it's a unique constrictor snake that only first mothers fang people can take.

How many inquisitor levels do you plan on taking? The boon companion feat could make this a moot point.

[keerawa]

More than 4 inquisitor levels. So you think neither the Sacred Huntsmaster levels nor the domain power would apply to the constrictor I get as a First Mother's Fang cavalier?

[BigNorseWolf]

You have one class granting you an animal companion twice which would either result in a second companion or more likely simply overlap to no effect. If you just want the one critter it doesn't matter.

It's not that I think it does or doesnt' work it's that this doesn't look like something I'd want to untangle at the table.

You have one ability that MIGHT work with another ability or might not depending on whether a big snake with the mothers fang add on is the same as the other snake. You have a "giant riding constrictor" which could technically be a separate creature than the constrictor snake who's statistics it uses. I would personally consider the riding element close enough for state work but the size alteration would make it a no go till fourth.

[keerawa]

So your recommendation is to keep adding GM credits until he hits level 4, at which point this becomes far less headachey?

[BigNorseWolf]

keerawa wrote:

So your recommendation is to keep adding GM credits until he hits level 4, at which point this becomes far less headachey?

And (assuming no official answer is forcoming) ask around about the local persnicket level

[pauljathome]

keerawa wrote:

More than 4 inquisitor levels. So you think neither the Sacred Huntsmaster levels nor the domain power would apply to the constrictor I get as a First Mother's Fang cavalier?

I've been playing a Mothers Fang/Hunter character for quite awhile in PFS (locally and online).

I have always pointed out that it isn't totally clear how the classes stack for the snake.

So far, EVERY GM (including quite a few very knowledgeable in the rules) have had no problem with the classes stacking. I haven't been counting but I'm pretty sure that is over 10 at this point

I agree that its unclear. But, at least in my experience, GMs allow it.

[Ascalaphus]

As I understand it:

* Effective druid levels stack. The FAQ seems pretty clear that the intent is for any two classes that give you access to the same animal companion to stack. The comment about rangers makes it clear to me that it's not strictly cavaliers/druids but anything that can gain an animal companion.

* I'm not sure you can combine a domain-granted companion with a companion granted from the same class. The FAQ seems to be talking about what happens if you gain an effective druid level from multiple classes, not multiple sources inside the same class.

* The Aasimar clarification puts a limit of animal HD <= Your HD+1 on what you can do with that particular way of increasing the pet's level.

* The Aasimar clarification discusses a favored class bonus that specifically boosts the effective level of another class ability. I don't think that's quite the same as getting a class ability twice and stacking it.

Let's see what you could do if you could combine domain and companion class abilities:

Sacred Huntsmaster level 1: a level 1 companion.

Sacred Huntsmaster level 4, taking Scalykind: A level 4+(4-3)=5 companion. That's 5HD, which is 1HD above you, which would be allowed.

Sacred Huntsmaster level 11: 11+(11-3)= level 19 companion. That's too much HD (15HD); look instead for the highest level that can have 11+1 HD, which is level 15. So a level 11 Sacred Huntsmaster could have a level 15 companion.

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My personal opininion is that two companion levels gained from the same class don't stack. There's no rule saying they do, and it would be rather powerful. Consider that druids have to choose between taking a domain (like Animal) or a companion.