(Spoilers) Thybidos

[Sippik]

Hello guys,

(Spoilers!)

I don't understand what exactly is the motivation in the second tome of the campaign to kill or to release Thybidos? Sorshen told the players that they have to kill him. However, if they don't, nothing will change during the campaign? Thybidos can just remain in his dungeon? Moreover, Sorshen tell the players that they could have some information with the ancient runelord of wrath but he don't tell anything to the players?

Is there a way to improve this encounter and to give the players some clues for the future, without spoiling the entire campaign? Do you have some idea?
Another idea should be that the Thybidos Wrath nourish Alaznist power. As the runelord of Wrath, she use the wrath of his prisonner to gain power. Offer the rest to Thybidos could be a way to reduce Alaznist power, and to gain some time for the PC (and time will be useful in book 3, as they have to manage the potnetial return of two more runelords!).

What are you feelings about it

[TloniousMonk]

I agree that the motivation to Thybidos is a little confusing. As far as I can tell, Sorshen encourages you to seek him out, but he seems too far gone to give you any valuable information about Alaznist. By defeating him, however, I think you can say that Hollow Mountain falls into a bit of a chaotic state without any Runelords there. So maybe that would disrupt Alaznist's plans. Hollow Mountain is the seat of her power and the location of her Runewell after all.

[Dasrak]

You're not missing anything; there is no significant motivation here. Sorshen doesn't appear to have any interest in Thybidos and never mentions him again, and the PC's gain nothing from freeing/defeating him. It really strikes at one of the core problems with the adventure path: the main plot only starts to take shape in book 4, and remains quite nebulous until the outset of book 6. There's really nothing the party can do to even so much as inconvenience Alaznist due to her time travel shenanigans. Volumes 1-3 aren't bad individually (Roderic's Cove in particular is easily the best 1st level adventure Paizo has ever put out, even if it doesn't really fit with the rest of the AP) but they lack a cohesive plot the binds them together and ultimately the events in those volumes have no bearing on the events of volumes 4-6 simply by virtue of the alternate time line. This is a structural problem with the whole AP and there's no easy solution.

I personally feel that the best way to solve the AP's problems is not to run it as an AP. Break it up into six separate adventures and have your players bring new characters at the start of each book. The only thing you lose out on are the cryptic hints that your party is destined to defeat Alaznist, but what you gain from being able to personalize your motivations in each chapter outweighs that. Hollow Mountain is a great dungeon delve, and the problem is that this dungeon crawl was shoehorned into a story it doesn't fit into. The Heroes of Roderic's Cove have no reason to continue delving after their town is safe from further incursion, while the the heroes destined to defeat Alaznist have no real reason to seek out Thybidos. However, a group of heroes who discover that the lower levels of Hollow Mountain have recently been unsealed and there are untouched riches down there has every motivation to explore the whole dungeon and in the process encounter Thybidos.

I'm aware that's probably not a tenable answer for a lot of groups, but I do feel that Return of the Runelords works a lot better if you split it up.

[Zhyth]

While I do agree that the motivation for "helping" Thybidos after the fact is rather nebulous, one thing worth noting is that some sort of consequence is mentioned in the Concluding the Adventure section. In particular, this passage (I hope it's alright to post this):

It Came from Hollow Mountain: Concluding the Adventure:

All those who dwell within know of the ex-runelord’s passing, as does Runelord Alaznist far to the north, where she continues to consolidate her power deep in the ruins of Xin-Cyrusian. As explained in the next adventure, “Runeplague,” Runelord Alaznist is unable to easily learn more about the PCs’ identities due to the damage she’s done to the time stream as well as their participation in the ordeals in the Gauntlet of Fury, but the PCs have no way to know this. For now, they know only that Thybidos’ passing was noticed by many and that there is no responding echo from within Hollow Mountain. Each PC knows instinctively at this point that no runelord dwells within Hollow Mountain, and that this means Alaznist is most certainly free and out, somewhere in the world.

Emphasis mine. My interpretation of this is that by going through the gauntlet, the PCs have gained some sort of protection against any attempts by Alaznist to scry on them or learn more about them. I think that if you play this up after the PCs deal with Thybidos (or, at the very least, let Sorshen inform them of this later on), then it could alleviate some of the motivation issues.