|
As they say, "no news is good news," but I'm really getting nervous with all of this "good news" I'm hearing about Monk.
Has there been any concrete discussion of what changes and updates the Monk can expect in light of all the other "Sub-Class" and other interesting changes that've been leaked?
Maybe some under-the-radar hint'hints?
Wild speculation? Everyone is welcome!
Someone mentioned loving the idea of a power-based charismatic Sensei monk-type (I think Jason?).
I called subclass.
No confirmation.
I'm wondering how a monk's role will play out over 20 levels. With flurry of blows in a 3 action system. I think it should work like the hydra. Lots of damage and attacks of opp.
Or something. I dunno.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I found the monk in the playtest was pretty weak at low levels but also totally awesome up higher (but not to an unreasonable degree.) So I'm pretty much just hoping they propped up the low end. Subclasses would work just fine here.
|
|
No actual news. I found low level Monks fine offensively but weak on defense in the playtest, personally. The Proficiency rules change alone does a lot to help that, assuming they remain Expert at unarmored defense (which seems almost a sure thing).
A 1st level Fighter in medium armor (ie: Valeros) has an AC of 18 in the final version (per the recent GAMA demo). A 1st level Monk with Dex 14 would have an AC 17 unarmored due to Expert unarmored Proficiency alone (+5 Proficiency +2 Dex).
That's already an order of magnitude better than Valeros having AC 17 to the Monk's AC 14 that those stats resulted in in the playtest.
This also applies to Saves to some degree, since Expert is +2 over Trained, though being a tad MAD does make that tricky.
But really, making Proficiency matter more is just inherently really good for the Monk.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Other than the math thing, I focus on how they did with the "ribbon" abilities that emulate high-end Wuxia stuff, like greatly extended (if not immortal) lifespan and immunity to all things passively hostile.
I want my 300 years old healthy hermit loafing around in a barren nuclear wasteland without any problem once more...
| 14 people marked this as a favorite. |
No actual news. I found low level Monks fine offensively but weak on defense in the playtest, personally. The Proficiency rules change alone does a lot to help that, assuming they remain Expert at unarmored defense (which seems almost a sure thing).
A 1st level Fighter in medium armor (ie: Valeros) has an AC of 18 in the final version (per the recent GAMA demo). A 1st level Monk with Dex 14 would have an AC 17 unarmored due to Expert unarmored Proficiency alone (+5 Proficiency +2 Dex).
That's already an order of magnitude better than Valeros having AC 17 to the Monk's AC 14 that those stats resulted in in the playtest.
Very insightful. That was actually one of my first responses when we were assessing changes from the new proficiency math and what else had to be adjusted, basically "1st level monks are going to be thrilled by this, it fills in that small gap where they had subpar AC."
Also Strength/Wis and Strength/Con monks will be happy because there's a new 1st-level stance they can try out that gives more AC and has a max Dex, helping focus it for those monks in particular.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Very insightful.
Thanks. :)
That was actually one of my first responses when we were assessing changes from the new proficiency math and what else had to be adjusted, basically "1st level monks are going to be thrilled by this, it fills in that small gap where they had subpar AC."
Yeah, it's a really nice side effect of the change. Monks always had good late-game AC with some Dex investment, but early on even Dex-secondary Monks ran into issues.
Also Strength/Wis and Strength/Con monks will be happy because there's a new 1st-level stance they can try out that gives more AC and has a max Dex, helping focus it for those monks in particular.
This is actual news! And wonderful news at that. I'm so pleased we're getting Stance so the the non-Dex Monks can really excel at something. Thank you so much for the info, Mark.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As a fan of Strength monks, that's awesome!
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I just hope I don't need to play a human to get "a stance", "that feat that lets monks use weapons", and "a ki power" before level 4.
I just hope I don't need to play a human to get "a stance", "that feat that lets monks use weapons", and "a ki power" before level 4.
Well, considering that update 1.6 gave monks proficiency in simple weapons by default I think you're good.
Organized Play Developer
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This is actual news! And wonderful news at that. I'm so pleased we're getting Stance so the the non-Dex Monks can really excel at something. Thank you so much for the info, Mark.
Mark and I talked about that a lot, and while my playtest monk had almost no DEX to speak of and did great, I think it became apparent that the sheer level of ping-pong repositioning I was doing every round was probably not something that should be expected of most players :P
And while it's not my place to get to drop any hints or spoilers, I will say that there are some new evolutions of the monk's abilities that I'm super excited about.
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
This is actual news! And wonderful news at that. I'm so pleased we're getting Stance so the the non-Dex Monks can really excel at something. Thank you so much for the info, Mark.
Mark and I talked about that a lot, and while my playtest monk had almost no DEX to speak of and did great, I think it became apparent that the sheer level of ping-pong repositioning I was doing every round was probably not something that should be expected of most players :P
And while it's not my place to get to drop any hints or spoilers, I will say that there are some new evolutions of the monk's abilities that I'm super excited about
(Guys, I think he's talking about ki blast here, but you'll have to wait a bit to see why!)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It looks like it may be possible to convert my monk/kineticist sooner than I hoped.
while it's not my place to get to drop any hints or spoilers, I will say that there are some new evolutions of the monk's abilities that I'm super excited about(Guys, I think he's talking about ki blast here, but you'll have to wait a bit to see why!)
Pls tell me Ki Blast's damage depends on how many actions you spend on it.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Pls tell me Ki Blast's damage depends on how many actions you spend on it.while it's not my place to get to drop any hints or spoilers, I will say that there are some new evolutions of the monk's abilities that I'm super excited about(Guys, I think he's talking about ki blast here, but you'll have to wait a bit to see why!)
… Actions, or minutes?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I found the monk in the playtest was pretty weak at low levels but also totally awesome up higher (but not to an unreasonable degree.) So I'm pretty much just hoping they propped up the low end. Subclasses would work just fine here.
Come on, monk schools!
Actually, I'm willing to wait for them to appear in a later book, especially if space was an issue, but I did think monk schools with accompanying anathema would fit the lore for the class pretty well.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
… Actions, or minutes?Pls tell me Ki Blast's damage depends on how many actions you spend on it.while it's not my place to get to drop any hints or spoilers, I will say that there are some new evolutions of the monk's abilities that I'm super excited about(Guys, I think he's talking about ki blast here, but you'll have to wait a bit to see why!)
Depends on how many vehicles / planets / galaxies / universes you want to destroy as part of the cinematic special effects
A few changes I'd like to see is the monk getting proficiency's with monk-weapons from the start and not as a optional feat. Another thing is getting expert proficient in perception. Also the whole monk-weapon proficiency feels like a feat tax
It feels more than a little odd that pretty much every martial class besides the monk get it.
Another thing I found a little weird is how the monk can get mastery in two saves or legendary in one and mastery in one. And the legendary save is not the strong one (where critical failure become failure). Where as other classes like the Barb, rogue, ranger etc get the powerful Legendary in one save as well as mastery in another. I'd like to see the monk getting mastery in 3 saves. As the monk is all about balance between soul, mind and body (yada, yada). It would also make the monk standout when it comes to gaining saves.
Another sort of redundant feat is the "Shattering Strike" (SS) feat. Given that monk already ignores most metallic DR by lvl 17 I think this feat should be removed and added to Perfect form (PF) feature. As of the SS feel somewhat redundant. And PErfect Form only really helps on the First strike in a round at that lvl. Adding SS to PF would mean that you get at least something out the Perfect Form feauture
The last part is the knock out strike, I feel the Barbs version was far more sensible and also its improved version Awesome Blow was more like I would envision an unarmed warrior would strike his opponents in that also knocks prone (Think one-punch-man)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
A One Punch Man punch doesn't knock people prone. They are usually still standing after it, but their entire torso has exploded. I don't actually see any relation to the feat.
I feel that if someone's torso explodes, they should have to fall prone. Just saying.
I feel that if someone's torso explodes, they should have to fall prone. Just saying.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
… Actions, or minutes?Pls tell me Ki Blast's damage depends on how many actions you spend on it.while it's not my place to get to drop any hints or spoilers, I will say that there are some new evolutions of the monk's abilities that I'm super excited about(Guys, I think he's talking about ki blast here, but you'll have to wait a bit to see why!)
Episodes, actually.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Pls tell me Ki Blast's damage depends on how many actions you spend on it.
Kaiseer....
......
...Wave !!!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would yell "Liliukalani" when I ki blast, but someone might throw a book at me.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
I would yell "Liliukalani" when I ki blast, but someone might throw a book at me.
I feel like that's what you would yell when you do a Hawaiian Punch, but maybe that's just me.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Ooh.
Spirit Bomb - Monk 20
Tapping into your ki, you create a massive sphere of energy to hurl at your opponents. You gain the Spirit Bomb ki power, which you can cast by spending 8 focus points. Increase your focus point pool by 2.
Traits Evocation, Force
Actions [Verbal Casting][Verbal Casting][Somatic Casting]
Range 400ft
Area 10ft radius burstDescription You unleash your inner ki in a potent blast of energy, dealing 5d6 force damage to each creature and object in the area. Each creature in the area may attempt a Fortitude save.
Success The creature takes half damage.
Critical Success The creature is unaffected.
Failure The creature takes full damage.
Critical Failure Double damage. A creature reduced to 0 HP this way is reduced to fine powder; gear remains.You may spend additional Verbal Casting actions when casting this spell. For every three additional Verbal Casting actions, you telepathically contact a living creature on the same plane with a request for help. When contacted this way, the creature may choose to provide its energy to help fuel your Spirit Bomb. If it does, it gains the Drained 3 condition and the damage of your Spirit Bomb increases by 1d6 and its radius increases by 5ft.
Am I close? :D
That is amazing. <3
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Ooh.
Spirit Bomb - Monk 20
Tapping into your ki, you create a massive sphere of energy to hurl at your opponents. You gain the Spirit Bomb ki power, which you can cast by spending 8 focus points. Increase your focus point pool by 2.Am I close? :DTraits Evocation, Force
Actions [Verbal Casting][Verbal Casting][Somatic Casting]
Range 400ft
Area 10ft radius burstDescription You unleash your inner ki in a potent blast of energy, dealing 5d6 force damage to each creature and object in the area. Each creature in the area may attempt a Fortitude save.
Success The creature takes half damage.
Critical Success The creature is unaffected.
Failure The creature takes full damage.
Critical Failure Double damage. A creature reduced to 0 HP this way is reduced to fine powder; gear remains.You may spend additional Verbal Casting actions when casting this spell. For every three additional Verbal Casting actions, you telepathically contact a living creature on the same plane with a request for help. When contacted this way, the creature may choose to provide its energy to help fuel your Spirit Bomb. If it does, it gains the Drained 3 condition and the damage of your Spirit Bomb increases by 1d6 and its radius increases by 5ft.
5d6 is puny considering meteor swarm as a tenth level spell deals 4d10 + 15d6 in a larger burst and with greater range for only 2 actions
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
5d6 is puny considering meteor swarm as a tenth level spell deals 4d10 + 15d6 in a larger burst and with greater range for only 2 actions
You say that until you find out the BBEG has been channeling his Spirit Bomb for 5 hours by the time you arrive at the Dungeon, absorbing energy from their followers worldwide as he prepares the attack.
Although I do think that the Area needs to increase to 10 * the number of creatures that contribute to the final energy total of said spirit bomb.
This thing needs to be variable from 10-1,000,000 radius burst if we want to do it right.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
If anything I think the radius goes up too fast, actually - spirit bombs in the show have been powered by literally millions of people and still only had a blast radius of a few hundred feet.
And yeah, my first thought was "the damage is low"... then I realized the damage has no actual cap. As long as you can find more willing people you can charge it forever. To use Fate terminology, this is an anti-fortress Noble Phantasm. :P
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If anything I think the radius goes up too fast, actually - spirit bombs in the show have been powered by literally millions of people and still only had a blast radius of a few hundred feet.
And yeah, my first thought was "the damage is low"... then I realized the damage has no actual cap. As long as you can find more willing people you can charge it forever. To use Fate terminology, this is an anti-fortress Noble Phantasm. :P
*Furiously starts homebrewing Enuma Elish as a Focus Spell*
The damage caps at (5+X)d6, 10+5*X ft radius, where X is the number of creatures on the same plane as you willing to take the Drained 3 condition and increase the damage of your Spirit Bomb. The focus spell takes 1+X rounds to cast though... so lets say a practical limit is one episode 22 minutes. How does 224d6 force damage and 1105 ft radius sound? :P
|
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
The damage caps at (5+X)d6, 10+5*X ft radius, where X is the number of creatures on the same plane as you willing to take the Drained 3 condition and increase the damage of your Spirit Bomb. The focus spell takes 1+X rounds to cast though... so lets say a practical limit is
one episode22 minutes. How does 224d6 force damage and 1105 ft radius sound? :P
Sounds to me like we need more short, bald, low level Monks to distract the baddie for a while.
I would yell "Liliukalani" when I ki blast, but someone might throw a book at me.I feel like that's what you would yell when you do a Hawaiian Punch, but maybe that's just me.
I've been wondering why there's no tropical island Hawaii-style culture in Golarion covered yet. Only islands of note are Kortos and Jalmeray. Maybe there's something like this in the nebulous Southern Garund?
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've been wondering why there's no tropical island Hawaii-style culture in Golarion covered yet. Only islands of note are Kortos and Jalmeray. Maybe there's something like this in the nebulous Southern Garund?
I could also see something like this off the coast of Arcadia somewhere.
And there are islands of note other than Kortos and Jalmeray...just not a whole lot of them in the Inner Sea region specifically.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've been wondering why there's no tropical island Hawaii-style culture in Golarion covered yet. Only islands of note are Kortos and Jalmeray. Maybe there's something like this in the nebulous Southern Garund?I could also see something like this off the coast of Arcadia somewhere.
And there are islands of note other than Kortos and Jalmeray...just not a whole lot of them in the Inner Sea region specifically.
Ooooof you're right! But a proper campaign with Arcadian stuff is still extremely unviable. I felt we were getting close to that material in PF1, but with the incoming restart and such it's not gonna happen.
|
Organized Play Developer
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Ooooof you're right! But a proper campaign with Arcadian stuff is still extremely unviable. I felt we were getting close to that material in PF1, but with the incoming restart and such it's not gonna happen.I've been wondering why there's no tropical island Hawaii-style culture in Golarion covered yet. Only islands of note are Kortos and Jalmeray. Maybe there's something like this in the nebulous Southern Garund?I could also see something like this off the coast of Arcadia somewhere.
And there are islands of note other than Kortos and Jalmeray...just not a whole lot of them in the Inner Sea region specifically.
Tyrant's Grasp has a volume set in Arcadia, more Arcadian deities have been trickling out across the product lines, and The Martial Arts Handbook introduced Arcadian luchadors. It's chugging along.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Tyrant's Grasp has a volume set in Arcadia, more Arcadian deities have been trickling out across the product lines, and The Martial Arts Handbook introduced Arcadian luchadors. It's chugging along.
I am now genuinely hoping Tyrant's Grasp features a pissed off ninja skeleton (who is immune to fear) as an antagonist.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Tyrant's Grasp has a volume set in Arcadia, more Arcadian deities have been trickling out across the product lines, and The Martial Arts Handbook introduced Arcadian luchadors. It's chugging along.I am now genuinely hoping Tyrant's Grasp features a pissed off ninja skeleton (who is immune to fear) as an antagonist.
Pentagon can not be defeated by a regular party though. The only warrior with the strength and spirit to defeat him is REY ARODEN, champion of justice and true inheritor.
|
Organized Play Developer
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Pentagon can not be defeated by a regular party though. The only warrior with the strength and spirit to defeat him is REY ARODEN, champion of justice and true inheritor.Tyrant's Grasp has a volume set in Arcadia, more Arcadian deities have been trickling out across the product lines, and The Martial Arts Handbook introduced Arcadian luchadors. It's chugging along.I am now genuinely hoping Tyrant's Grasp features a pissed off ninja skeleton (who is immune to fear) as an antagonist.
This is rapidly becoming a hot contender for "My Favorite Thread of the Week".
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Great to see there's going to be some good core rulebook support for strength monks. Always preferred my Monks to be buff bruisers. I don't suppose there'll be support for using charisma instead of wisdom, will there? >.>
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It'd be interesting if Monks could pick *any* of the given attributes in Core to reflect the focus of their development.
Same effects, practically, but one could do Strength, another Dexterity, yet another Charisma, etc, all depending on how they want to be as far as a developed character?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It'd be interesting if Monks could pick *any* of the given attributes in Core to reflect the focus of their development.Same effects, practically, but one could do Strength, another Dexterity, yet another Charisma, etc, all depending on how they want to be as far as a developed character?
I think that'd be interesting, as a show of "Discipline to master X" would be an interesting concept.
That said, I do feel like Cha/Int are a bit too flamboyant in terms of a Monk, for lack of a better term.
Con, Dex, Str, and Wis I can certainly see as each being a dedication for a certain path of Monk though.
A Ninja/Ghost style Monk could certainly draw on Charisma, but I wonder if those make more sense as Rogue multiclass Monk (or Monk multiclass Rogue), but certainly a thought.
Int is hard for me to visualize, perhaps someone else can paint the picture for me there.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Charisma monks already have Pathfinder precedent with the Scaled Fist and Nornkith. The Scaled Fist in particular has been very popular since its release.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
A Scribe Monk
They have "ribbons" that flavor them as traveling book writers, copiers, legalists, scribes, transcribers, and translators.
Give them 1 extra language at level 1 and double languages learned from other sources.
Can make copies of any book, or Scroll of level equal to or less than their Character Level for the normal crafting cost. Can cast ANY self created scroll.
Throw the Book at 'im! - Treat any attack with a Book, Tome, or Scroll as an Unarmed Strike benefiting in all ways on these attacks as one would Unarmed. This may be used as a Ranged Attack which does not provoke AoO with a 20 ft range.
Add Int Mod to AC - The Monk carries with them at all times dozens of books, pamplets, writing utensils, inkpens, pads of paper, maps, scrolls, and similar equipment which is hung from the Monks pack, belt, and clothing. The AC bonus reflects the Monks ability to use these books and gear to deflect attacks.
Charisma monks already have Pathfinder precedent with the Scaled Fist and Nornkith. The Scaled Fist in particular has been very popular since its release.
I feel like the Scaled Fist is "Cha" just because it is Dragon related, not that there's anything wrong with that, but it doesn't scream "Charisma" to me.
The Nornkith (which I was unaware of, as I don't play the setting itself) is actually a pretty neat idea. Fate certainly can be a neat concept to play with.
I also would love to see the Hungry Ghost Monk moved to Charisma based, as thematically I think it fits there too.
I guess my question (especially in regards to Scaled Fist) is where does the Monk begin and end. Does it reach Brawler territory or is that Fighter area?
When I think Monk, I think personal self-discipline in the sense of a set of beliefs.
Being scaley fisted and draconic-based could be Monk like, or did it just make sense to put them there because a Fighter was too difficult to carve out all they would need to be efficient in the same space.
Personally, I'd say thematically Scaled Fist would fit better as a Fighter, but I'm not super opposed to the concept.
Johnny Cage could be a Monk, but he could also be a Fighter with Dirty Tricks and UAS. shrug
A Scribe Monk
They have "ribbons" that flavor them as traveling book writers, copiers, legalists, scribes, transcribers, and translators.
Give them 1 extra language at level 1 and double languages learned from other sources.
Throw the Book at 'im! - Treat any attack with a Book, Tome, or Scroll as an Unarmed Strike benefiting in all ways on these attacks as one would Unarmed. This may be used as a Ranged Attack which does not provoke AoO with a 20 ft range.
Add Int Mod to AC - The Monk carries with them at all times dozens of books, pamplets, writing utensils, inkpens, pads of paper, maps, scrolls, and similar equipment which is hung from the Monks pack, belt, and clothing. The AC bonus reflects the Monks ability to use these books and gear to deflect attacks.
The Hermit/Traveler style monk journeying for the preservation of knowledge.
I could see it.
But then, is that a school? Is it just a Fighter with high Int and duelist like tendencies, UAS, and a set of beliefs dictating that.
Or is just a Bard who can punch things (less so now with the changes than PF1 though).
I could see it working in that space, but while Wis/Dex/Con/Str have a LOT of different "schools/styles" they can work with, Int/Cha seem to require very niche concepts to function as the primary.
That's certainly fine though, just my observation.