Black Powder Vaulter - how to optimize?


Advice


(I can't believe I'm the first person to bring this up in CharOp.)

So, Martial Arts Handbook finally gave us the archetype for run-and-gun/gun-fu that we've deserved since the inception of the Gunslinger class, The Black Powder Vaulter.

The swaps:
Gunslinger's Dodge >> Daring Vault, swift action and 1 Grit for a 20' boost to speed, and the ability to parkour from one wall or fixed surface to another.
Deadeye >> Mobile Reload, a 'have grit' deed that lets you reload as part of a move action, as long as that reload would be a move or swift action (free action isn't mentioned, and might be an intentional prevention of abuse with advanced firearms). At third level, this works with...

Gunslinger Initiative >> Shot On The Run. Got Grit? You've got this feat! (With firearms you're proficient with.) At 7th level, you can combine this with the Targeting deed.

Startling Shot >> Art of the Gun. As long as you've got grit, reload and fire all you want! It won't provoke A's of O! Firearms you wield now also threaten, with your choice of either Pistol Whip or firing a loaded firearm for 1 grit.

Epert Loading >> Dual Shot on the Run. You can now make two shots when using Shot on the Run.

With all that to digest, two options jump out at me as synergizing with this. Gun Scavenger, although it will take away your option for Targeting On The Run, will give you consistent access to either another 10ft of range, or the Distant enchantment. Combined with Mobile Reload and Daring Vault, even the most meager of one-handed firearms should be able to reach your foes.
The other option is Spring-heeled Style. The third link in the style chain is unnecessary with Dual Shot on the Run, and while the second benefit of the initial style feat (avoiding provoking AoO) will be covered by Art of the Gun, you'll still get a nice attack bonus, and Spring-heeled Sprint will push to cover truly ridiculous amounts of ground when combined with Daring Vault.

Other thoughts? Thoughts on this archetype in general?

Sovereign Court

You might want to take a look at the trait Reckless Contempt, which gives a +1 attack roll whenever you provoke attacks of opportunity for firing a firearm. While this doesn't sound intuitive when combined with the Art of the Gun, this will give you an early boost to attack rolls at early levels if you're prepared to eat Attacks of Opportunity for a while. If you get Reckless Contempt, Point-Blank Shot and Weapon Focus ([Firearm]), this means that you get +3 on your attacks, never mind your dexterity bonus that's probably also ridiculous.

You can also combine that with False Opening, which allows you to deliberately provoke attacks of Opportunity to gain +4 to your AC to resolve those attacks before they lose their dexterity bonus to AC, making it basically impossible to miss for you at the level you're gaining this. Shame that the feat tax is so high on this one, though.

Another thing that you need to consider when you're talking about the Black Powder Vaulter is this; Readied actions. You can, at any time, reload a weapon as part of a move action, which includes readied move actions. That means that you can say, "I use my move action to reload my first pistol. I then prepare my second move action to start moving diagonally backwards and reloading my second pistol if any enemy closes the distance to me before it would provoke an attack of opportunity for me to move out of the way."

You now always have two loaded fire-arms that you can fire at the same time if you wanted to AND you've denied your enemy an attack. Pretty powerful at early levels. Because your readied action is resolved before the enemy can resolve their attack, this means that you can basically weave and dodge around enemies and still have one or even two weapons ready for your next turn. Which is incredibly cinematic and cool and probably a little frustrating for your DM. But that's really what the Black Powder Vaulter has as a fantasy, so be sure to discuss it with your DM first so they buy into this class fantasy.

Do note that readying an action is a standard action, so you can't fire and then ready a move action. Also keep in mind that firing both firearms at once incurs penalties on top of wielding them one-handed.


The funny thing about this archetype is that it's basically a trap, while being actually decent. On one hand, it tricks you into a truly atrocious playstyle - after a few levels, a single shot per round (or two shots at 11th level) is just not a meaningful contribution to combat, period. on the other hand, you don't actually lose much (only Gunslinger Initiative), and nothing forces you to use the Shot on the Run crap.
Still, the Mobile Reload, Shot on the Run, and Daring Vault deeds are all only rarely useful, and taking this archetype may prevent you from taking another archetype (most prominently, Musket Master).
The main draw is Art of the Gun, a rather nice ability that's basically Deft Shootist Deed plus Snap Shot, without all those pesky prereqs. It might actually be worth taking two more levels in Gunslinger than usual for this.

Backlash3906 wrote:
free action isn't mentioned, and might be an intentional prevention of abuse with advanced firearms

Er, free action isn't mentioned because if you can reload your firearm as a free action, you don't need Mobile Reload...

Backlash3906 wrote:
The other option is Spring-heeled Style. The third link in the style chain is unnecessary with Dual Shot on the Run, and while the second benefit of the initial style feat (avoiding provoking AoO) will be covered by Art of the Gun, you'll still get a nice attack bonus

Yay, a +2 bonus to your attack roll (against touch AC), and it only costs three feats! I'm positively overwhelmed!

Sacredless wrote:
"I use my move action to reload my first pistol. I then prepare my second move action to start moving diagonally backwards and reloading my second pistol if any enemy closes the distance to me before it would provoke an attack of opportunity for me to move out of the way."

You still need a free hand to reload a firearm. The "waste your turn hoping the enemy moves up to you" thing is independent from this archetype.

Sovereign Court

Derklord wrote:
Sacredless wrote:
"I use my move action to reload my first pistol. I then prepare my second move action to start moving diagonally backwards and reloading my second pistol if any enemy closes the distance to me before it would provoke an attack of opportunity for me to move out of the way."
You still need a free hand to reload a firearm. The "waste your turn hoping the enemy moves up to you" thing is independent from this archetype.

I just checked out the Weapon Cord. Apparently this was errata'd? My idea was to get a weapon cord for your pistols so you can drop them and then draw them again as a swift action, but it looks like they killed that.


It was changed by this FAQ in 2013.


Oooh. I thank ye for pointing this out!

I dearly think it would go rather swimmingly with GunChemist.
I would do 3 in this, then guchemist I think. I would basically never stop moving.I don't know if the Gunchemist's explosive ordience would be a better choice than the lv 7 combo shot gunslinger gets.. but I feel like it probably is when you also count in the various Discoveries you get from alchemist. force damage as a rider and or adding in conductive for a double up, could be a rather potent ability really.

Gunchemist would allow you to preload your bomb bullets, or load them on the run, or loadthem normally. Alchemical shots as well.

This means you could choose use shot on the run to fire your bomb infused Scatter shot (Blasts), or special alchemical shots. Your 1 shot per round would work considerably better due to the bomb damage.
or if you have conductive. You could, for the cost of 3 specialty bullets, fire a scatter shot with 2 explosive ordience riders. Which is a pretty decent AoE depending on your weapon.

Granted doge and mobility are still good choices for this sorta build. As would certain style feat chains.

But yeah.. I will probably modify my Gunchemist to include 3 levels into this.. It will save him some feats and net him some specialty reloading ability..

Its a shame it doesn't stack with siege gunner.

-------
as a general note.
Paddle gun pistol I think is probably the best bet.
or Dragoon pistol if you dont want scatter.


The Empty Quiver Style feat chain enables you to treat your gun as a mace, and even apply your Gun Training class feature. Dex to damage in melee!


Errant Inlad wrote:
The Empty Quiver Style feat chain enables you to treat your gun as a mace, and even apply your Gun Training class feature. Dex to damage in melee!

Like everything for a Gunslinger, it's feat intensive, but there are ways to optimize the gun-kata/gun-fu aspect without burning grit on Pistol Whip.

A - Empty Quiver Style is easy enough and has a quick payout, but requires (G) Weapon Focus. (F)Flexibility is harder to push for, requiring Rapid Shot and Stabbing Shot as well. Flurry is just too costly to really pay off in this build.
B - Stock Striker Style is a one-off that will grant you the ability to treat one-handed firearms as light weapons for the purpose of (C) Weapon Finesse.
D - Weapon Style Mastery will require a dip in Fighter (3 levels Weapon Master or 5 levels standard) or taking (E) Martial Focus, but will allow you to benefit from both Styles.

I forget the source at the moment, but like multiple enchantments of Bane with different selections, multiple uses of Training can be placed on the same weapon (Cestus or hand wraps mean you'll always have them). However, you can only use 'end' feats, nothing to fill prerequisites for others. So...
Take: G, E (or 3 levels of Weapon Master Fighter), B, and A
Use Training (+1 enchantment) for: C and D, on separate items to keep costs down.

Reorganize as necessary if you REALLY want to go further into the style chains, and make sure to prioritize your full BAB class levels until you get Weapon Finesse, to make sure your Pistol Whip or Empty Quiver attacks still stand a chance of connecting.


Empty Quiver lets you treat one handed firearms as a light mace, which can be used with Weapon Finesse. But as you said, Empty quiver style is a LOT of feats to pull off. I do think Empty Quiver Flexibility pays for itself though.


Errant Inlad wrote:

Empty Quiver lets you treat one handed firearms as a light mace, which can be used with Weapon Finesse. But as you said, Empty quiver style is a LOT of feats to pull off. I do think Empty Quiver Flexibility pays for itself though.

I just double-checked the wording, and you're right. I thought it was 'deal damage as' rather than 'as if it were' wording. Nice.

So I guess with that observed, I'd recommend dropping WFinesse from a use of Training, ditch Stock Striker entirely (unless for some reason you have TWF dreams), and drop in Flexibility via Training. No getting around using feat slots for Rapid Shot and Stabbing Shot though. A merciful DM might let you off the hook for Stabbing.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Black Powder Vaulter - how to optimize? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice