Incorporeal creatures in dead magic zones

[Yqatuba]

So, as far as I can tell incorporeal creatures are immune to all non magic damage and effects. So what happens if the player encounter some in a dead magic zone? Are the creatures just invincible and the pcs have no choice but to run or die?

[Meirril]

Well, number one, the players should throw dice at the GM for creating such an encounter.

Number two, an undead is a creature that needs magic to support its existence. Lots of creatures require magic to continue to exist. Some wink of out existence immediately if caught in a no-magic environment. Others become inanimate. Most just loose their SU and SA abilities and slowly die until they return to a more magic rich environment.

Incorporeal creatures are particularly vulnerable to such change in environment. Magic is vital for their continued existence.

But seriously, anyone that makes an encounter like that deserves to be berated for years to come.

[Dave Justus]

Incorporeal is an EX ability, so it functions just fine in a dead magic zone. Often an incorporeal creatures attacks are supernatural though, so they may be just as neutered as the PCs, if not more.

A shadow for example is very tough to hurt in such an environment, but neither its strength drain or create spawn abilities function at all, so it can't really do anything to the PCs.

Holy Water works just fine against incorporeal undead in a dead magic zone. There are a few other options as well, although much less common.

I don't know of any creature that 'winks out' in a no magic zone, summons would, but that is a function of a spell not the base creature. Even something like a construct doesn't become inanimate in a dead magic zone or anti-magic field.

[Yqatuba]

Meirril wrote:

Well, number one, the players should throw dice at the GM for creating such an encounter.

Number two, an undead is a creature that needs magic to support its existence. Lots of creatures require magic to continue to exist. Some wink of out existence immediately if caught in a no-magic environment. Others become inanimate. Most just loose their SU and SA abilities and slowly die until they return to a more magic rich environment.

Incorporeal creatures are particularly vulnerable to such change in environment. Magic is vital for their continued existence.

But seriously, anyone that makes an encounter like that deserves to be berated for years to come.

There'a absolutely nothing to suggest undead cease to function in an anti-magic/ dead magic zone. Yes, the way they are animated is presumably magical, but not all spells or other magical things are suppressed in an anti magic zone (wall of force, for example). BTW does it say for sure holy water isn't considered magical?

[Dave Justus]

Holy water is created by magic, but once created it is an alchemical item, not a magical one. It functions exactly as well as a golem.

[Kayerloth]

Well near as I can tell Yqatuba has noted a particularly nasty environment to encounter incorporeal creatures. If you are encountering such creatures in a Dead Magic environment hope? they are Undead at least and that you've packed a lot of Holy Water. Holy Water will function near as I can tell and is fully functional. Also while something like a Wraith maybe hard to hurt the vast majority of its abilities are also non-functional/suppressed within a Dead Magic region. Its Life Sense, Constitution Drain, Create Spawn, and Unnatural Aura are all shut down. Its still effected by Sunlight Powerlessness. The other incorporeal undead I looked at were similarly neutered by Dead Magic.

Universal Monster Rules wrote:

Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead.

Not familiar enough with Alchemists and their bombs but as Dave noted Holy Water is created magically but doesn't remain so not sure if Alchemists have a similar work around in any of their abilities.

In any case I wouldn't necessarily start hurling dice and epithets at the GM, but ... it should be a very unique encounter situation and not something that just randomly occurs.

Or hope you're in the Forgotten Realms and a devoted cleric/follower of Mystra. Clerics of Mystra could both potentially cast within Dead Magic and had ways to actually destroy Dead Magic and restore the connection to the Weave in the area. (Or the equivalent in the campaign world your PC is in)

Dave also points out Golems would be uneffected by Dead Magic. But to truly effect the target the Golem needs a way to effect an incorporeal target which most Golems lack. Though an Ice Golems Cold ability is interestingly labeled as Ex.

Artifacts might also function but that's getting off into GM territory.

[Dave Justus]

I wasn't suggesting that Golems are effective against incorporeal creatures, particularly when any supernatural abilities they have are shut down (ice golems cold ability wouldn't damage an incorporeal creature) but rather pointing out that being created by, and even powered by, magic doesn't turn them off in a magic free environment.