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Iron Limb Defense (Ex): At 5th level, a monk of the
sacred mountain can def lect blows with an active defense
that complements his bastion stance. If the monk starts
and ends his turn in the same space, he gains a +2 shield
bonus to AC and CMD until the start of his next turn.
As a swift action, he can spend 1 ki point to increase this
bonus to +4. This ability replaces high jump.
Seems straightforward, but...
By spending 1 point from his ki pool, a monk can ... spend 1 point from his ki pool to give himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round. Each of these powers is activated as a swift action. A monk gains additional powers that consume points from his ki pool as he gains levels.
So, my question is, why would anyone ever spend a point to gain a net +2 bonus to defense, when they already have a +4 stackable bonus to defense that they got last level?
Both are swift actions, which you only get once per round, and cost the same number of ki points. Nothing replaced the basic ki abilities of the monk AFAIK... so we have a redundant ability.
If this was a mistake, what might possible erratas be? It seems to me that whoever wrote this section may have forgotten about that particular ability.
Yup, seems like a redundant ability. I looked over it on the pages just to see for myself, and it's as you see it AFAIK.
As for possible errata, I'd say make the shield bonus an immediate action. Dodge bonuses in general are better than shield bonuses, so even if they were the same amount, it'd still make more sense to use the dodge bonus. But, in a pinch, getting a couple extra AC to make the difference would be fantastic.
I could be wrong but the quoted text does not state that the Iron Monk needs to spend either ki or actions to get the +2 Shield bonus.
To me this seems like a nifty ability. If the Iron Monk starts next to a baddie and wants to do a FOB they get some extra defence. I also do not see anthing that says the ki powered dodge and the ki powered iron arm cannot stack. +6 ac (base iron arm plus ki dodge) or +8ac (ki powered both) is nothing to sneeze at.
Question. Do shield bonuses vanish if you lose dex ac bonus? Flat footed/blind/invisable attacker/entangeled et multiple cetera?
No rules handy so I expect I am wrong
~will
I could be wrong but the quoted text does not state that the Iron Monk needs to spend either ki or actions to get the +2 Shield bonus.
It doesn't, but the extra +2 shield bonus part of the ability does. That's really the question. Why spend a swift and ki point for +2 shield when you can do the same for +4 dodge?
To me this seems like a nifty ability. If the Iron Monk starts next to a baddie and wants to do a FOB they get some extra defence. I also do not see anthing that says the ki powered dodge and the ki powered iron arm cannot stack. +6 ac (base iron arm plus ki dodge) or +8ac (ki powered both) is nothing to sneeze at.
Agreed. Though since they are both swift actions you cannot boost your shield bonus and dodge bonus and FOB in the same turn unless you had extra actions (+6 AC still awesome). Even then, dodge bonuses stack with each other, so the ki dodge is all you need unless you're blind. Which brings me to...
Question. Do shield bonuses vanish if you lose dex ac bonus? Flat footed/blind/invisable attacker/entangeled et multiple cetera?No rules handy so I expect I am wrong
~will
shield bonuses apply to normal and flat-footed AC (but not touch), so no, it doesn't vanish.
I get that the initial +2 shield bonus is always on. I meant the 1 ki point to boost it to a +4 shield bonus, which is a swift action.
If I already have the +2 shield bonus, I'd rather spend my swift action/ki point to get a +4 dodge bonus (total +6) instead of an extra +2 shield (total +4).
I think I like the idea of it being an immediate action. +2 in response to an emergency, or +4 for planning ahead...
Perhaps if the bonus you received by spending the ki point increased as the monk gained levels.
It makes sense to me.
A normal monk can spend 1 ki to add +4 dodge and so can the sacred mountain monk.
The sacred mountain monk's stick is about standing in place and fending off attacks. So they give them another ability to boost their AC even more, they always get a +2 when not moving, and can spend another swift action to get another +2 over the normal +4 dodge for spending a ki point.
The Sacred mountain monk stays in place, uses a swift action to spend a ki to get +4 dodge, uses a move action as a swift to get the additional +2 for a +4 shield, then has is standard action left.
Makes it so they can stand their ground and hold off the world for a few rounds. Though no very offensive at this point.
That's what I was gonna ask as well.
You can convert a swift to a move?
I stand corrected.
A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort than a free action. You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. You can, however, perform only one single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action. Swift actions usually involve spellcasting, activating a feat, or the activation of magic items.
I was still under the 3.5 idea of you can always use a larger action to perform a shorter action.
Spend a standard to do any type, spend a move to do swift.Thanks for making me look for the rule.
I stand corrected.
A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort than a free action. You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. You can, however, perform only one single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action. Swift actions usually involve spellcasting, activating a feat, or the activation of magic items.
I was still under the 3.5 idea of you can always use a larger action to perform a shorter action.
Spend a standard to do any type, spend a move to do swift.Thanks for making me look for the rule.
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Is there a rule that prevents a monk from spending more than 1 Ki point at one time? It is a limited resource after all.
Would it be too much to let them spend 2 ki points to get +8 AC/CMD until the beginning of the next round if they stand still? Or even let them spend 3 when they FoB and get an additional attack? I don't think so.
I think, for my campaign, I will just treat the archtype power as part of the monk power. That is, the ki point and the swift action get you a +6.
Frankly, the power requiring you to stay in one place is limiting enough!
I thought dodge bonuses applied to CMD?
... A creature can also add any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to its CMD.
Come on Paizo dudes, sort this one out....
...also...
If after not moving for a round you find yourself grappled, assuming you don't break the grapple or move during your next turn, would the "you can't be moved" ability prevent the foe from transferring you to its mouth to swallow whole?
Would the ability also stop you from being teleported/Dim-door'ed?
You could be swallowed whole, provided the creature can go "around" the terrain - like a burrowing creature. Otherwise it should not be able to.
Regarding the shield bonus using ki, as Alexander Kilcoyne pointed out: it is a situational bonus that you can use in situations when you'd otherwise be flat-footed to attacks. Not particularly attractive as an ability, but not every ability needs to be a scorcher.