Seeing through illusion spells

[ckdragons]

Is it possible to "see through" an illusion spell after making a successful disbelief save?

For example, a creature casts screen and hides itself in the object created by the spell. Can other creatures outside the illusion see into the protected area once they successfully disbelieve the illusion?

Is this true for all illusion types (figment, glamer, phantasm, etc.)?

[Azothath]

it depends on what you mean by "see through". There's the implied "I know it is an illusion" which is what the game text refers to and the literal reference to optical transparency. It's best not to take it out of context.

There are different types of illusions and it is the GM's responsibility to read the descriptions and determine the details in his game. Some are clear, others require interpretation.

In my experience, illusions with physical components can be opaque and still look like they are there but the details gave them away.
A fine example is a realistic forced perspective room. From a given viewpoint it looks convincingly real even though you know it is an optical illusion.
There's a long running joke about a naked guy with a hat of disguise.

[Pizza Lord]

Illusions wrote:

Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief)

Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.

A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline.

A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss. a character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw. If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus.

In the case of screen (let's assume you have an illusory crate in one corner and you are standing 'inside' it), anyone looking into the room does not get a save. Even if they enter the room, walk through it, they still don't assuming they don't try and interact with the crate (by touching it usually). If they deliberately take time to study the area (because they think it might be an illusion, or they've just seen the room a bit ago and it looked different, or because you just shot an arrow from inside the box), they do. If it definitely seems to be an illusion, because you stepped out of or into the box, they get one with a +4 bonus (note the arrow example above isn't quite proof, since spells or possibly magic arrows (like brilliant energy) could conceivably do this. Of course, this would be considered a reasonable excuse to attempt an active disbelief.

ckdragons wrote:

Is it possible to "see through" an illusion spell after making a successful disbelief save?

Since screen is a glamer, and the rules say figments and phantasms remain as translucent images, normally you don't get to see or note the presence once disbelieved. This means if the effect has other quality, like sound, scent, etc. those will not be detectable (by the rules, though I think most GMs would just indicate they are hazy, insubstantial, or obviously illusory to make it easier). In the case of the caster, they probably can be ruled to have some innate awareness of such things despite being considered to automatically see through it (for purposes of controlling and manipulating certain effects and knowing where they are and how they look).

For most other illusions (figments and phantasms), seeing through it still lets you note the outline and spot where it should be and what it is supposed to be pretending, but otherwise you should be unaffected by it. An illusion of a fog cloud will not block your vision once you've disbelieved it, but because of the translucent outline you could see where it was supposed to be (like if you were the caster and see through it automatically, but want to know where its borders are.)

Note that the illusory wall spell specifically does not allow disbelieving creatures to see through it (the caster can), making it a special case. So use permanent image instead when you want to cover that basilisk pit to teach smarmy PCs who disbelieve everything or have constant true seeing up a lessen.