Turning the Bard back into a Dabbler?

[Manic Kobold]

So, to get straight to the point how would people feel if the bard had spellcasting taken out and replaced with extra feats only for Archetypes? Let's say at levels 2, 4, 8, 12, and 18 with lowered requirements for dedications like only needing 14 in a stat and being able to take another dedication without finishing an existing one.

This would let Bard players have the Option of being (Mostly) full casters, or simply be jacks-of-all-trades to help round out a party while also giving them the unique potential of prestige specialists. Because who better to emulate the renowned then those who study and sing about them?

Just as a side note this is assuming that if it were put in that the dedications have more thematic requirements or are very fairly balanced, I’m just wondering if the core idea seems appealing.

[dmerceless]

The idea isn't bad, and I'm not going to enter specifics about balance, but I would much rather have this as a new class in a future book than as a substitute for the Bard.

[NorthernDruid]

Certainly a better concept for the bard than a full caster.

[Fuzzypaws]

I'd be happy with this version of the bard. If they go for a caster they get a spell list and up to 8th level spells, if they go for a rogue or alchemist you get something more like the Dark Sun bard.

Then they can put the Witch in the book as the actual primary Occult caster. :)

[Siro]

-Warning Long Post-
In my musing for Bards over the last couple of weeks, I found that while they had the basics of a spell casting class, they lacked the support for both the skills and swordplay side of being the jack of all trades. They do have some skill support in some of the class feats {Bardic Lore is mostly likely the best in this regard} but often times these fall short {Versatile Performance at best makes Performance equal to the use of a regular skill at the cost of a class feat, but without the support of Skill Feats associated with the activities VP adds to Performance, and Eclectic Skill isn't that great of a feat if you are most likely going to fail the check.) And {outside of spells} the class does not have a way to improve its non-magical combat.

Originally I thought about lowering the casting {say to either LV6 as in PF1, or LV8 as in the dedication feats} in trade for a bit higher skills and combat but found some problems doing it this way. PF2 {at least the little I have both experienced and have read} is more built towards specialization, lowering or removing spellcasting also removes the little specialization the bard has. {ie spells become less powerful the more levels you go up {as you get less powerful spells with less higher slots to use them} and the improvements to both skills and combat my not be reliable enough, as these skills would not be the focus.}

I then thought of keeping the 9th level casting, but lowering the both the spells known and spell slot by one {So at say level 3 you would get one LV2 slot and spell, and at Level 4 you would get the other slot and spell} and turn the muses into something like the Druid orders. So any Lore Feats would mostly deal with Knowledge and Magic, and give some sort of additional bonus to Magic for Bards whom picked the Muse of Lore, Maestro would deal with Performances while giving some sort of additional combat bonus to the bard when they perform, for those bards whom picked the Maestro Muse, while Polymath would be the home of Feats providing additional skills, with a bonus to VP (ie what skills could be used for it/ skill feats that could be gained) for those whom picked the Polymath.

However, just making the adjustment to spells and allowing for bonus feats to be used on multiclassing can be an easier and more elegant way to make the bard a workable Jack-of-All trades class within the current system. {to be fair, in theory crafting a LV20 Bard, he ended up taking the Rogue Dedication feat for 'Skill Mastery" for the skills, and Monk Dedication for 'Flurry of Blows' to have a half decent non-magic combat option, and he would have loved to give up a spell/slot each level to go further down these routes.)