I'm playing a human Cleric of Gozreh with the Growth Domain in our current campaign. I originally went for a reach build, but I'm looking to do battlefield control as well through summons among other things.
Character theme: A Shoanti "Warrior Shaman". Reach build w. Longspear goes well with fluff. As does summons which could represent ancestral images or totem beasts. The extra skill points of the Herald Caller would help to portray her as someone with the skills of a wilderness upbringing.
Party set up: Buff-focused Bard, Human Slayer, Orc Fighter - Thus, a Battlefield Control Cleric might not be the worst addition?
Multiclassing: I considered a dip in Fighter to regain armor proficiency, but medium armor prof might do the trick if Mithril heavy comes into play. The bonus feat is always welcome, of course, and unlocking class skills such as Climb, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge (Dungeoneering, Engineering), Ride, Survival and Swim as are pretty much thematically appropriate for a Shoanti to have as class skills.
Human Reach Cleric (Herald Caller) of Gozreh
Alternate racial trait: Heart of the Fey - Grants Lowlight Vision, +1 to Ref and Will saves and Perception and Knowledge (Nature) as class skills. Suits the fluff of a "wilderness Cleric". Replaces Skilled.
STR 16 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 16 CHA 10
1 Combat Expertise, Bonus: Toughness, Domain: Growth
2 -
3 Medium Armor Proficiency
4 Augmented Summoning (Bonus)
5 Improved Initiative
6 -
7 Extend Spell
8 Superior Summons(Bonus)
9 Quicken Spell
10 -
11 Divine Interference
13 Reach Spell/Echoing Spell/Dazing Spell/Still Spell?
14 -
15 Spell perfection
Or, an alternate route with a Fighter Dip. Delays the good stuff by one level, but frees up TWO feat slots, nets me heavy armor prof instead of just medium as the straight cleric build would have gone for, and hands me tons of thematically delicious class skills. Still not sure if worth..
1 Combat Expertise, Bonus: Toughness, Domain: Growth
2 Fighter: Quick Draw/Power Attack/Heighten Spell
3 Improved Initiative/Furious Focus/Lightning Reflexes*
4
5 Preferred spell, Augmented Summoning (Bonus)
6 -
7 Extend Spell
8
9 Quicken Spell, Superior Summons(Bonus)
10 -
11 Divine Interference
13 Reach Spell/Echoing Spell/Dazing Spell/Still Spell?
14 -
15 Spell perfection
*Some suggestions for what these feats might be spent on. Improved Initiative/Heighten Spell is the most likely pick as it opens up for Preferred Spell at fifth. If you're wondering why there is no sacred summons, it's because Gozreh is true neutral and I understand there is little to benefit from there.
Tripping things would be a natural extension of reach, growth and summons. Summons help with flanking bonuses and then benefit from beating up prone targets. Reach means tripping attacks of opportunity and tripping at range, which both really mess-up enemy plans. Greater Trip makes tripping a target in a pack of allies a total beat-down.
Is this a character already in play? You have Combat Expertise listed, but not 13 INT. Dirty Fighting is an alternative, and great for pack-tripping (double flank bonus). Effective tripping can be difficult against tough targets, so you would want to stack good tripping bonuses - things like Fury's Fall and Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver, plus Cleric combat buffing. Besides Greater Trip, Felling Smash is a nice aggressive trip tactic, and a Fortuitous weapon is just mean if you're good at Greater Trip. Upgrading to using a guisarme opens up a special weapon that can trip winged creatures in the air (Dragoncatch guisarme).
Oops! That should have been Combat reflexes, not expertise..!
The Guisarme is a good tip that might factor into the fighter route, should I choose that one. I hadn't really planned on going for tripping, but it's certainly a way to control the battlefield. I just worry that I might not have enough feats, unless I skip the preferred spell route.
but medium armor prof might do the trick if Mithril heavy comes into play
As a heads up, while mithral armor counts as a category lighter for most purposes, it doesn't change the proficiency required to wear armor without nonproficiency penalties:
When worked like steel, it becomes a wonderful material from which to create armor, and is occasionally used for other items as well. Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor. A character wearing mithral full plate must be proficient in wearing heavy armor to avoid adding the armor’s check penalty to all his attack rolls and skill checks that involve moving. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0).
Reach plus summons is fun--you can hide behind your minions and poke with your spear. Bonus points if enlarge person comes into play as you can hide even further back.
Oops! That should have been Combat reflexes, not expertise..!
The Guisarme is a good tip that might factor into the fighter route, should I choose that one. I hadn't really planned on going for tripping, but it's certainly a way to control the battlefield. I just worry that I might not have enough feats, unless I skip the preferred spell route.
Trip isn't really all that expensive with a level of Fighter. A decent trip ability on a reach build (especially one with Growth) can be a game-changer, even just if opportunity tripping. Charging enemy? Nope, down you go, have a couple stabs and lose a move action getting up.
While some might argue that a fighter dip is expensive in and of itself, it seems like there's at least two (and a half, counting myself) who's in favor of it :)
BadBird; Investing in tripping feats still isn't costless though. While a fighter dip does free up two feat slots, I'd need at least three for tripping, won't I (Dirty Fighting -> Improved Trip -> Greater Trip)? Where would you reccomend that I place these feats in the levelling progression?
Thanks for the feat suggestions! :) If it's not a bother, I'd love some suggestions regarding which feats to replace in my current set up and at what level.
The character is already in play and the first level is technically set, but since we're taking a small break we were allowed to make minute changes in our builds.
While some might argue that a fighter dip is expensive in and of itself, it seems like there's at least two (and a half, counting myself) who's in favor of it :)
BadBird; Investing in tripping feats still isn't costless though. While a fighter dip does free up two feat slots, I'd need at least three for tripping, won't I (Dirty Fighting -> Improved Trip -> Greater Trip)? Where would you reccomend that I place these feats in the levelling progression?
A one-level dip on a Cleric grants the same spell-level as a Sorcerer. I guess I'd just say "be good at what you do". If a big part of what you do is fighting, then maybe sacrifice a half spell level to do it well. If you want to really focus on spellcasting, then don't. Clerics have an exceptionally strong buff spell in Divine Favor and later Divine Power, which is even stronger with the Fate's Favored Trait (maybe develop a Drawback for a bonus Trait?).
To be honest, if I was creating a tripping Cleric from level 1 I'd do things a bit different (no Toughness, different traits: Bred for War to boost CMB, Fate's Favored to boost Divine Favor/Power, Magical Knack to recover lost Caster Lever) - but I'm jaded and power-gamey. You want 3 basic feats to trip, and Greater Trip is only an option at level 9 (or 8 if you dip Figher at level 8) anyhow. I love Preferred Spell, but for grabbing more uses of spells that are special (like Domain spells or Spell Sage). I wouldn't burn two feats on Preferred Spell without a really good reason.
Edit: Bonus Shoanti Music? Probably not, but whatever, it's a jam.
We're locked at three traits and one drawback where one the traits would have explicitly be justified by fluff and not too power-gamey. I chose Reckless (+1 Acrobatic as class skill), Reactionary (+2 Initiative) and Survivalist (+5 to wilderness survival). Should anyone be curious, her drawback is Xenophobic; "Never trust a Chelaxian. They are as removed from compassion and humility as they are from nature."
As a Shoanti, I'd argue that bred for war is a very apt fluff based trait (my character is 6'3") - Magical knack would mend some of the damage done by the fighter dip (Which I'm fairly convinced that I'll go for now, thanks guys :D) - While I do see the benefit of Fate's favoured, I still love the idea that my character is likely to make very high rolls in the wilderness just because it's second nature (no pun intended) to her. If it would be a toss between losing one of the three traits, which one would you skip?
I'd like to take the fighter lvl at lvl 2, just to have proficiencies and class skills available from the get go and get me tripping faster. Fortunately it bumps my Bab progression up one lvl, which should net me greater trip only one lvl later than a full bab class.
I guess we're looking at a build closer to this now;
1 Combat Reflexes, Bonus: Dirty Fighting, Domain: Growth
2 Fighter: Improved Trip
3 Improved Initiative
4
5 Extend Spell, Augmented Summoning (Bonus)
6 -
7 Greater Trip
8
9 Quicken Spell, Superior Summons(Bonus)
10 -
11 Divine Interference
13 Reach Spell/Echoing Spell/Dazing Spell/Still Spell?
14 -
15 Spell perfection
EDIT: Also, love the music reccomendation! It's not something you'd expect in a build thread! :D
None of those Traits are really crucial, but Magical Knack and Bred for War are the better choices there.
Greater Trip isn't available until level 8 either way, so to get it at 8 you'd need Retraining or the Fighter feat. Or GM permission to delay your level 7 pick.
Note that a cheap Extend Metamagic Rod can work very nicely for extending spells, depending on the situation.
Since you're already collecting Trip bonuses, the Toppling Spell Metamagic is great with Admonishing Ray. All your trip bonuses and even Divine Favor apply to the trip check, so it's up to three powerful trip rays. You can later add things like Dazing too; call it a Non-Lethal Death Ray (TM).
Ah! My counting's off it seems. You're completely right in that I wouldn't have BAB +6 until lvl 8! It seems that tripping is not so easy to bake into the build. Metamagic will get more important as the action-economy piles on, so I don't really want to miss out on quicken spell as of lvl 9.
I'm going for three metamagic feats before 15 to invest in Spell Perfection. Quicken and Extend would be nice ones to have and toppling might make a nice addition, but the wording worries me: It seems to imply that the trip check is made solely with CL + Caster mod and doesn't really have much do with your remaining trip bonuses.
Benefit: The impact of your force spell is strong enough to knock the target prone. If the target takes damage, fails its saving throw, or is moved by your force spell, make a trip check against the target, using your caster level plus your casting ability score bonus (Wisdom for clerics, Intelligence for wizards, and so on)
Well, the way combat maneuvers work is you first calculate CMB for the check with BAB and ability score, and then you add all relevant bonuses to the actual attack roll. As far as I know, Toppling just means you use Caster Level and WIS to calculate the CMB instead of BAB and STR. As always, ask the GM if it's a question mark for you. Anyhow, it's not an integral part of the build.
If you don't want to wait until 8 to take Fighter, just swap your previous list to Quicken at 7 and Greater Trip at 9. Fighter at 8 kind of makes sense though, since you can focus on developing your Cleric/Reach stuff at first. Then, 5/7/8 goes Dirty/ITrip/GTrip, and you get Fighter just in time to start shopping for bigger armor and a new martial reach weapon. Hooked Lance makes for a cool tribal spear type weapon - it's like a long spear with an extra scythe-like hook for x4 crits, and it's a trip weapon too. The dumb picture of a hooked lance in Ultimate Equipment is actually wrong; it's a spear with a bonus blade.