Two Fisted Drinker - Cayden WarPriest


Advice


Undine WarPriest
S 7 -2 5
D 18 +2 20 Level Adjustments here
C 14
I 7
W 16 +2
C 7

1: Blessing - Replace with Cayden's Divine Fighting Technique.
1: Dirty Fighting, Weapon Focus (mug of ale)
3: Improved Dirty Trick, TWF
5: Weapon Finess
6: FC WP Bonus: Improved TWF
7: Agile Maneuvers
WPB:Quick Dirty Trick
9: Greater Dirty Trick
10: Major Blessing: Cayden's DFT
11: Quick Dirty Trick
12: Greater TWF
FCWPB: Dirty Trick Master

Traits: Fates Favored
Adopted: Gnome Prankster (+1 CMB / CMD)

So at 11:

+ to hit
Dexterity +8
WF +1
+2 Sacred Weapon, +2 mug
Divine Favor +5
Bab +9

======
+27

CMB

Dexterity +8
Gnome Prank +1
Dueling +15
Gauntlets +2
Burglar Buckler +2
Improved DTrick +2
Greater D T +2
WF +1
AS +1
Sacred +3
Divine Favor +5
Bab +9
=====================
+51

Plan: Fight with either Tankard & Shield, or Tankard and Tankard (since tankard's are light weapons, as are bucklers).

So, using a tankard, and Divine Fighting techique I can toss a drink in place of an attack.

Improved dirty trick means lasts d4 rounds

Greater means it takes a standard action to clear. So in theory, I could blind him, shake him, entangle him. Alternately, I could whack him for mediocre damage.

Now, by my reading I don't really need Quick Dirty Trick. Do you agree? What would you suggest as an alternate? Weapon Versatility? Improved Shield Bash? Dual Enhancement?

At 12th level (sadly, out of PFS play) I could take him straight to pinned by Dirty trick master.

Pro's: Fun roleplaying.
Con's: Mediocre damage. Capstone out of PFS play.
Not fun till level 5.


So...yeah. You need Weapon Finesse at first level with this build. Until then you have a -2 strength for all melee and CMB purposes. That combined with a Warpriests 3/4 BAB advancement means your just a walking victim that is weaker than a Rogue.

Also Weapon Finesse only lets you use your dex for CMB when you do things with the weapon. I can see how a mug can be used to blind an opponent. Now explain how the mug makes them shaken and entangled. The mug gets treated as a light mace and there are no combat maneuvers listed under light mace from what I can remember.

Without the mug you go from +8 to -2, a 10 point drop. Make that 11 since weapon focus is out as well.

If you plan on doing anything other than a single dirty trick per round (like iterative attacks, or two weapon fighting) you'll need Quick Dirty Trick. The divine fighting technique is clear about it, and so are the rest of the dirty trick feats. Everything says either "dirty trick in place of attack" or "dirty trick is a standard action". Quick Dirty Trick lets you do it in place of your best attack for the round.


Since Blade and Tankard allows for Dirty Trick maneuvers in place of attacks with a tankard while using TWF, it does seem like it would be unnecessary to take Quick Dirty Trick.

Is a STR-dumped Undine a core part of the concept, or did you go that way just for the stats? Because you can easily create an effective Warpriest wielding a sword and tankard with good stats without having to go that road. A STR-based character with just enough DEX to take TWF for the free Dirty Trick would get the free Dirty Trick plus a strong weapon without needing to worry about managing a DEX-build. 17DEX on a STR-based build for Improved TWF is still pretty easy with Dual Talent Human, and there's really no need for a TWF character to have more than 17DEX (a -10 offhand attack is probably a waste of a high-level feat anyhow).

As a side-note, the Charm Blessing is exceptionally powerful with a good WIS score - it's like the spell Sanctuary, except it scales with level and you don't lose the effect against anything but your target when you attack.

One other really big note: the Cult Leader Archetype grants Sneak Attack dice that can be improved with Accomplished Sneak Attacker, which would be a very effective combo with Dirty Trick blindness. A 9th level Cult Leader Warpriest with Accomplished Sneak Attacker will toss 4d6 Sneak Attack on every hit on a blind foe... ouch. The Cult of Cayden doesn't mess around.


Agile maneuvers let's you use Dex for cmb.

Super high dex in order to be able to land the cmb. Iirc, monster cmds are 48ish at 11.

Conceptually a- 10 attack when the victim is blinded and pinned would work out okay.


If I wanted to *really* optimize a Cayden Warpriest for Dirty Trick CMB and overall combat effectiveness, I'd run DEX-based rapier or STR-based TWF rapier-and-cestus with the offhand holding a Blue Scarf Swordmaster's Flair, and use Amateur Swashbuckler and Quick Dirty Trick with a Shocking rapier, where the Blind was produced by touching a rapier blade crackling with electricity across the target's eyes.

But regardless, CMB isn't *that* tough to scale up. On a Warpriest, Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver plus Divine Favor plus Weapon Focus feats (especially as a Human with Warpriest FCB Bonus Feats) plus Sacred Weapon is already a huge bonus.

In my experience, what's really depressing is becoming (literally) a one-trick pony, where every round is about landing a dirty trick and then...? Better to be a skilled, interesting swordsman who is 75% good at Dirty Trick than a character specialized in 85% Dirty Trick with little else to do.

On an interesting note, a Cayden Warpriest can easily pick up Guided Hand: Rapier to focus almost totally on wisdom, becoming a "Charm Blessing Sorcerer" at level 11 on top of wielding a rapier with wisdom.


Hey bird. I appreciate The comments.
I've played a fair bit of optimized characters.

I agree with you about the trick ponies. But of all the tricks, dirty tricks is the most versatile.

The best optimization is dueling. Especially with sacred weapon. +15, I've already used all the tricks mentioned to boost. Gauntlets. Burglar shield. Divine favor.

I do agree that The twf feats are probably suboptimal. But... It does give some measure of combat ability.

Thought about dazzling display linr instead of twf line


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Just a thought, if you really want to push CMB high on a divine character, the Battle Oracle Maneuver Mastery Revelation with the FCB that boosts effective level is very strong, and Surprise Charge is extremely useful for any kind of TWF. Oracle can also use the Ancient Lorekeeper Archetype to pick up arcane spells for more buffing, like Heroism and Blade Tutor Spirit.

Oracle is also more suited to multiclassing, like taking two levels of Urban Barbarian and Strength Surge for an effective +5CMB with a Furious tankard, or taking two levels of Ninja and Vanishing trick to make an invisible Dirty Trick attack for +2 and denying the target their DEX to CMD.


If your going barbarian Savage trick is a must include. So what would that build look like?


Savage Trick requires Barbarian 6, which makes it sadly un-dip-able. On the other hand, Ninja 2 would grant access to Underhanded Trick, which is pretty fantastic.

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