
InsaneFox |
In my PF group, we just ended a campaign. As an experiment, the next DM decided to draw lots for which race and class each PC has to play. (He added monster races too, for fun.)
I drew goblin Paladin. So I decided to go with an armored wolf mount, wearing full plate, and using a lance/shield combo.
Have the character designed with feats leading to Spirited Charge. And I fully intend on staying on my wolf ALL the time, if possible.
I've never played a mounted character or a paladin before, so the question is: Since paladin mounts have an int score of 6, (above animal intelligence) are Handle Animal checks and animal tricks required? My intuition tells me no, my mount doesn't need to be trained to kill evil zombies, since it's almost as smart as its rider. (Goblin has an int score of 8. >.>)
Also, any suggestions on what few paladin spells I should use? (I believe we start at level 6 for this campaign.)

Cheapy |

Are you sure that RAW is actually yes? Because Handle Animal lets you teach tricks to non animals that have 1 or 2 intelligence BECAUSE they have 1 or 2 intelligence. Which leads one to believe that it's the 1 or 2 intelligence, and not the 'animal' subtype that prompts the use of Handle Animal.
There's a post on the paizo blog that says intelligent animals still need Handle Animal checks. I can't search it right now tho.

Cheapy |

The Handle Animal skill functions similarly no matter how intelligent an animal becomes. A character must still make Handle Animal checks to train his animal and get him to perform the appropriate tasks.
Just ask your GM though. That's a lot of extra rolls.
Although, it might be funny if your wolf doesn't listen all the time.

BigNorseWolf |

Once your ride skill hits +4 (guide with knees) and your handle animal skill with your companion hits +9 (11 when wounded) there's really no point in rolling.
technically you're looking at
-Ride check to guide with knees (dc5)
-Handle animal check to get it to attack (dc10)
-Your attack roll
I don't think there's much point in rolling anyway. A trained combat animal (especially one with a six int) That sees you trying to kill someone is going to get the idea and join in with a hoof to the head.

InsaneFox |
I read that blog. Which doesn't really address paladin mounts. That blog is mostly based on the assumption that the animal BECOMES smarter naturally. A paladin mount is summoned. (Derivative of when it dies "you can summon another".) Summoned creatures are manifestations of a natural creature. Effectively meaning, a paladin's mount is created FOR the paladin.
Which leads to the question, does it have sentience? The 'awaken' spell gives an animal sentience, but it cannot be used as an animal companion because it then has it's own desires and wants. But a paladin mount is defined as unusally loyal.
Effectively meaning that, if a paladin mount is sentient, it would not require handle animal checks or tricks.
So maybe the real question is, how much int is required to make an animal sentient? 6? Because 6 is a pretty specific number that doesn't have a lot of in game differences than an int score of 2, so there has to be a reason for it.

Cheapy |

The Handle Animal skill functions similarly no matter how intelligent an animal becomes. A character must still make Handle Animal checks to train his animal and get him to perform the appropriate tasks.
Emphasis mine. RAW, they require a handle animal roll unless the GM says otherwise.
I don't really see how it can get any clearer than that.
An intelligence of six means they get more skill points per level, and that they can take any feat they are physically capable of taking.
Further, the blog post also specifically says that Awaken is what's used to bring the creature up to sentience.
A high intelligent score doesn't do that.

InsaneFox |
The problem is, that the RAW you are quoting isn't specific enough in context to this circumstance.
Paladin mounts are uniquely different than animal companions in one fundamental way.
They are created as magical beings. The blog you are quoting argues that, for example, an animal that becomes smart enough to learn a language or use a weapon probably wouldn't do so because there is no reason for it to do so. Being an animal its entire life, it has no need for learning a language or using an item. A paladin mount is different. It's created specifically for the use of the paladin. With an int score of 6, would it not come into being knowing a language that the paladin desires? And if it can understand speech, why would you require handle animal checks? You can simply tell it to go there, be brave, kill those zombies, ect. It's unnatural loyalty would surely overwrite it's 'animal insticts.'

BigNorseWolf |

An intelligence of six means they get more skill points per level, and that they can take any feat they are physically capable of taking.
-Animals only get 2 skill points per hit die, So increasing an animals intelligence doesn't get you more skill points until you take it from 8 to 10.
Giving it a headband with a skill in it on the other hand...
It does get you more tricks though, so you can teach your mount some insanely specific things.
The second type of bond allows a paladin to gain the service of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed to serve her in her crusade against evil. This mount is usually a heavy horse (for a Medium paladin) or a pony (for a Small paladin), although more exotic mounts, such as a boar, camel, or dog are also suitable. This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the paladin's level as her effective druid level. Bonded mounts have an Intelligence of at least 6.
-The mount functions as a druids animal companion, so whats in the blog goes for them as well.
-The animal is actually a flesh and blood critter, not a celestial called creature like they were in 3.5

InsaneFox |
Well technically... your mount is a spell like ability. So RAW is you CAN dispel it, ironically enough.
But this forces us to go back to game terms. If you mount dies, you have to summon another one. In which summon is a very specific game term. You're summoning an altered manifestation of an animal through the power of your god. It's only natural that that being would suit your needs.
EDIT: Actually, reading further, the description for paladin mount's uses both the word 'call' and 'summon'. Which are two entirely different things as far as game terms are concerned. (You call a mount to your side. But you summon when you bring him back to life. That doesn't make sense.)
EDIT 2: Though I suppose you can call an already summoned creature from one location to another.

Cheapy |

Well technically... your mount is a spell like ability. So RAW is you CAN dispel it, ironically enough.
But this forces us to go back to game terms. If you mount dies, you have to summon another one. In which summon is a very specific game term. You're summoning an altered manifestation of an animal through the power of your god. It's only natural that that being would suit your needs.
EDIT: Actually, reading further, the description for paladin mount's uses both the word 'call' and 'summon'. Which are two entirely different things as far as game terms are concerned. (You call a mount to your side. But you summon when you bring him back to life. That doesn't make sense.)
EDIT 2: Though I suppose you can call an already summoned creature from one location to another.
That's why I don't think those are binding terms. I really do think those are meant to be colloquial terms for what's happening, and that goes back to the timestop / balor / gate question. Just like how not all attacks that are OHKOs (Master Hunter, Death Shot, etc) aren't labeled death effects, I think it would have to be specifically called out as a Conjuration (Summoning) [Or "as a summon monster spell" / "as Gate"] or Conjuration (Calling) to be one of those. Assuming that "Call" and "Summon" mean the specific game terms rather than just another way to say "it teleports to you."
For example, interstellar void of the Heaven's Oracle. They "call" something, but it's clearly not referring to the Conjuration (Calling) subschool.
Or another example:
An eidolon has the same alignment as the summoner that calls it and can speak all of his languages.
By saying "calling = Conjuration (Calling)", that's saying that the Eidolon is a Called (Conjuration (Calling)) creature. But everything else about the Eidolon says that it's not that.
The simplest reading seems to be that it's just an animal companion that you can teleport to you as a spell-like ability. It once existed on the Celestial Plane of Good Times, but now it is yours, gifted to you by the Gods themselves.

InsaneFox |
Well the first instance, it says "call upon" rather than "call." And since contextually it's not a conjuration spell, there's no real confusion as that being simply flavor text.
As far as the summoner goes. That's likely either an oversight or a typo. Seeing as there are MAJOR and specific differences between called and summoned creatures.
In the case of the Paladin, if they don't intend for the mount to be a summoned creature, they shouldn't state that you "summon" it into existence. As for the 'calling it to your side', there's no reason why you can't call an already summoned creature from one location to another, so it still makes sense, rule wise.