Minion Oddity

[sherlock1701]

Quote:

*points* "Sic 'em, Rover!"

-Costs one action

Quote:

*points* "Valeros! Unleash a flurry of arrows on yon ghoul!"

-Costs nothing

[Arachnofiend]

I'm gonna be honest here, I'm willing to accept a bit of a breach from realism if it means the summoner doesn't get an infinitely long turn.

[Mudfoot]

It gets odder than that. If Rover is an animal companion, it's a Minion and gets two actions. If you bought it from the pet shop, it gets three. So a stock horse the wizard bought at auction that morning runs 50% faster than the ranger's AC.

[Baval]

Mudfoot wrote:

It gets odder than that. If Rover is an animal companion, it's a Minion and gets two actions. If you bought it from the pet shop, it gets three. So a stock horse the wizard bought at auction that morning runs 50% faster than the ranger's AC.

necromancers only ride living horses because undead horses lose an action.

[Schadenfreude]

In total, it works out in your favour with an animal companion when you look at the total number of actions you can take on your turn.

1. PC with pet shop animal = Handle animal action, Command animal action, Command animal action = 2 useful actions out of that turn (both taken by the animal in this case)
2. PC with animal companion = Handle animal action, Command animal action, Command animal action = 4 useful actions out of that turn (all taken by the animal)
3. PC with Ride feat, mounted on pet shop animal = Command animal action x 3 = 3 useful actions (all taken by the animal)
4. PC with Ride feat, mounted on animal companion with mount quality = Command animal action x 3 = 6 useful actions (all taken by the animal)

So the weirdness around mounts and the Ride feat remains, but each time, you're better off with the animal companion.

[Baval]

Schadenfreude wrote:

In total, it works out in your favour with an animal companion when you look at the total number of actions you can take on your turn.

1. PC with pet shop animal = Handle animal action, Command animal action, Command animal action = 2 useful actions out of that turn (both taken by the animal in this case)
2. PC with animal companion = Handle animal action, Command animal action, Command animal action = 4 useful actions out of that turn (all taken by the animal)
3. PC with Ride feat, mounted on pet shop animal = Command animal action x 3 = 3 useful actions (all taken by the animal)
4. PC with Ride feat, mounted on animal companion with mount quality = Command animal action x 3 = 6 useful actions (all taken by the animal)

So the weirdness around mounts and the Ride feat remains, but each time, you're better off with the animal companion.

wow, i didnt even realize you had to spend an action for each action your mount takes. Thats even worse. I assumed you just had to "command an animal" as upkeep each turn for it to do anything like minions.

I guess that means necromancers do ride undead horses though.

[Wowie]

A creature with the Minion trait can only take 2 actions a turn, can't use reactions, and only acts when commanded. (p416 for full ver)
Animal Companions, Familiars, Summoned Creatures, and Controlled Undead are all minions.

Really, Animal Companions are just shafted. When you turn a major class feature into a feat, it's only allowed to be as strong as a feat...

I'd rather have a separate nature class whose primary class features go into having an AC that's a proper AC. We could call it the Hunter or something.

[sherlock1701]

Arachnofiend wrote:

I'm gonna be honest here, I'm willing to accept a bit of a breach from realism if it means the summoner doesn't get an infinitely long turn.

People have complained about this a lot, but it's never been an issue for me in practice. Most players who summon don't want their turn to take forever and so don't summon crap that takes forever to control. And most players with ACs can control them quickly and efficiently.

The longest turns I've seen are people playing casters who can't remember what any of their spells do and spend forever making a decision. Or, in one player's case, arguing that his intelligence would let him cast quickened teleports when he was 12th level.

I've also never seen an AC or eidolon that could seriously outperform a dedicated martial. They might get a couple better rounds with Pounce, but their damage was always low in comparison overall.