Do I have to help my family.
And helping the world is subjective, what I consider helpful, others might not agree.
Being a Wizard / Spellcaster wielding Phenomenal Cosmic Power (on a limited daily basis), one imagines that "helping" your family would occur whether they made their saving throws or not. ;)
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I would probably start my own nation like Razmiran, but LG founded on honesty and supporting the community. All that power could facilitate the creation of a great empire of benevolence and order.
That whole if I can, I will, because why wouldn't I?
Counterpoint: just because you can does not mean that you should.
Hopefully the 30+ Intelligence that should be part and parcel of being a 20th level Wizard is not accompanied by a dumped Wisdom...
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Counterpoint: just because you can does not mean that you should.
Hopefully the 30+ Intelligence that should be part and parcel of being a 20th level Wizard is not accompanied by a dumped Wisdom...
Then I'll buy all the wisdom boosting items and turn some succubi to stone. :p
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Then I'll buy all the wisdom boosting items and turn some succubi to stone. :pCounterpoint: just because you can does not mean that you should.
Hopefully the 30+ Intelligence that should be part and parcel of being a 20th level Wizard is not accompanied by a dumped Wisdom...
Gotta get that profane bonus to Int from somewhere? ;)
Up to you. You can choose to help your family, the world. either or. but how would you go about it?Do I have to help my family.
And helping the world is subjective, what I consider helpful, others might not agree.
That's for me, the 20th level wizard, to know, and for you, not a 20th level wizard, to find out.
Whatever I do you can bet is going to be circuitous as f$!+.
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...
If anyone wants to know a Bad Idea(TM), giving me the power of a 20th level spellcaster is the proverbial "it."
Oh, I'd have nothing but the best of intentions. At first. I would truly set out to make the world a better place.
But sooner or later I'd get around to atomizing people out of pique.
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I'll be honest, I'd likely turn into the stereotypical retired wizard: a reclusive, grouchy, surly old man living at the top of a mountain or a shack in the middle of nowhere that's actually a magically-disguised entrance to some fabulous elaborate fortress-palace or something (probably a demiplane or Mage's Magnificent Mansion or something along those lines).
I'd likely end up prioritizing using my magic to maintain personal comforts and survival so that I don't have to work and can use my free time to pursue creative hobbies and entertainment that I don't have time for with an 8-5 job.
I'd likely end up with some kind of side business of people coming to my door and begging for assistance with my magical powers, but I'd likely set up a stringent set of rules and regulations limiting what I'm willing to do - no getting involved in personal feuds (no I will not turn your cheating boy/girlfriend into a newt), no messing with the government (I'll conjure gold or whatever to give you a hand with catching up with your taxes and debts, sure, but I won't turn the IRS auditor to stone for you), no getting involved in any religious anything (I'm a businessman, kid, not a miracle-worker), etc. etc. etc.
Inevitably I'll end up like Ebenezer McCoy from The Dresden Files: a surly old codger living in the middle of nowhere and staying as uninvolved in things as possible, using magic as needed to keep myself comfortable and occasionally to help people as I see fit, and - not unlike Cole above me - not averse to dropping a meteor or something on people or groups that annoy me excessively. First time's a warning shot.
That would likely get you killed.
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Presuming I survive the first such attempt - possible, given I could ward the heck out of wherever I'm staying with plenty of defenses, but obviously not guaranteed - I'd likely withdraw even further, maybe permanently into a demiplane or concealed residence.
I'm not going to fool anyone and try to claim that I'd be at all some kind of beneficent entity dispensing goodness and charity at whim, but I'm also not going to try and take over the world or establish my own wizard-ruled kingdom or country. I'm going to take care of myself, maybe make some cash on the side (not that I'll really need it, but why not?), and want to be generally left alone.
So not that different from normal, minus the lack of super magical powers and the need to work a steady job.
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Hmm seems like a modest life but have you thought about what happens after? If you do fulfil at least one person's fondest wish, not necessarily with a wish spell, you could be hip deep in government officials and operatives eager to get a piece of you. Could be risky
If I were 20th level wizard, of all the things I'd worry about, muggles trying to harm me would not make the top thousand.
At the very least, I'd cast clone. After that, even if they got through all one hundred and fifty of my hitpoints (assuming average con, favored class into skills, a +6 belt, and +5 from wishes, and no abjurations, not even the ones that last hours per level) I'd just reanimate on a private demiplane.
No, humans with guns wouldn't scare me at all.
If I had the powers of a twentieth level wizard, what I'd do with them would depend on a lot of other things. Are there other Planes of Existence? Gods? An afterlife? Are there Djinn to be bound and exploited for wishes?
But, regardless of how specifics played out, I know that I'd try and use my power to help people. I've read enough superhero comics and enough obscure philosophy to know that with great power comes great responsibility; I wouldn't go about murdering muggles by choosing to let them die.
I think I would start small, build a community (which is more in keeping with the first question) until the community could support itself with/without my aid.
It wouldn't necessarily have me being an 'Evil Overlord', but adequate protections and safeguards would be taken.
As the community grew and word spread, I would then start encouraging a more global consciousness among said community, and then keep building from there.
Would probably tend to shy away from 'mind control' methods, though. Those are exceptionally problematic in the long run.
However, excessive violations will result in violators being toad.
You could always feed the toads to the dogs or [insert horrifying magically created war-beasts here]. ;)
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A lot of this speculation really depends on the specifics. Does my newly magically powered self have full "Player Character Class" magical gear, translated equivalents of ability scores, and (for an arcanist or wizard) just what are the limitations as regards what spell book I start with?
Or, do I gain the 20 class levels and vastly-enhanced [mental ability score] for [reasons] but that's it? Pretty different paradigms of operation in my experience - fun, but quite different from one another.
However, excessive violations will result in violators being toad.
Disintegrate option
I think I'd reserve the above for significantly heinous crimes -- like mass murder/genocide, slavery, excessive profiteering at the cost of worker health, etc.
Y'know, things that are in the total a-hat category.
And I suspect folks would be much less inclined to go on 'rampages' if they knew they could become a nice fluffy bunny *for the rest of their lives*.
Consequences, and all.
The other alternative would be to have something akin to Vetinari's door available...
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*shrug*
Create a timeless demiplane, cast time stop, now I have an eternity to craft magic items and cast spells.
Cast Gate to summon an arbitrary number of Solars. They cast like twentieth level clerics, which should shole up my spell list quite nicely. Cast geas on each of the Solars. Now I've got an army of twentieth level casters who'll obey my orders. I'd also summon an arbitrary number of ifrits who'll I'd also geas.
Dismiss time stop as a standard action; plane shift back to earth with my angelic buddies; cast true resurrection on everyone who's died in the past two hundred years; station Solars across the glob to spam create food and water, remove disease, and calm emotions; have my ifrits cast wish a couple hundred times or however many times it takes to purge the poison from our skies and the plastic from our seas; geas everyone who can't play nice without enchantments; fabricate loads of computers; provide the world with high speed internet; use wish and interplanetary teleport to explore and colonize the solar system; find some way to abuse the thermodynamic defying magic powers I have for limitless energy; create power plants; use speak with animals to have a conversation with an octupus; cast time stop in my timeless demiplane to craft loads of magic items that will allow more competent researchers to speak with animals; use Contact Other Plane or Commune to find out the answers to questions that are hard to answer but easy to verify; use my nineteen newfound ranks in knowledge (computer science) and my absurd intelligence modifier to design a friendly general artificial intelligence; have my Solar army spam cast augury before turning the machine on (with enough Solars, the chance of the majority reaching an incorrect answer approaches nill); release my Solars from their geas and just kind of bounce around the planes having an adventure. Likely I'd overthrow the gods I just found out existed.
Before doing anything else, though, I'd geas myself to make sure I never start atomizing people out of pique. Doing so seems like a fairly obvious place to start, for someone who starts with good intentions.
That's a stream of consciousness spiel off the top of my head, I'd have much more time to think (and a higher INT score to do it with) while I'm binding angels in my timeless demiplane.
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I'd help other people to the extent I could do so anonymously. I would definitely not want it known to the general public that I, alone among over 7 billion people, had access to magic. I would never hear the end of requests for stuff.
Why help? Because I can. That's the only reason my parents ever needed, and I absorbed that ethic from them. (Not so much their work ethic, though...I'm lazy.)
Well, on reaching lvl 20, I'd take the Immortality discovery and invest a good part of my wealth in a diversified portfolio (stocks, financials, insurance, real estate) to make sure I can live the next millenium or 3 in comfort. Then I would look for worthy uses for my powers.
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People are highly adaptable, they'll get used to it.
I'll be honest. Klorox has a good idea, but if someone was just *annoying the heck* out of me, I'd probably be tempted to do *something* to them.
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Entire world, natch.
What kinda selfish asshat would only help their friends?
I'm currently at the point where I think there are at least a few people who need to no longer be in positions of power, so I certainly wouldn't put public immortality as a high priority. I'd consider it for myself since, as the only one currently capable of in-depth magical research, I'm kind of important.
Then. Remove. Them. From. Power.
Friend, you just told me that if you had the power to save my life you wouldn't, but you'd consider it for yourself 'cuz you're important and I'm not. :\
I would hire myself out to teleport people to the space shuttle or Mars at $9 million a trip. Even as a PF2 wizard I would have 3 interplanetary Teleport spells a day. I agree with the poster that muggles would pose no real threats to me.
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He is a 20th level Wizard.
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If I were a 20th level wizard in the real world i'd probably cave in under the enormous amount of responsibility I should probably take upon myself if I want to continue to see myself as a decent person.
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If I were a level 20 wizard?
In a word?
Debauchery.
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Friend, you just told me that if you had the power to save my life you wouldn't, but you'd consider it for yourself 'cuz you're important and I'm not. :\
Well if he's the level 20 wizard and you're not, it's kinda hard to argue with that determination.
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How would all of you approach the subject of immortality?
Would you want it? What kind?
Bequeath it onto family members, friends, the rest of the world?
The problem I think with the idea of immortality in the sense that a D&D character achieves it is that it runs up against the problem of population and space. I certainly am not going to hand over the secrets of immortality to the world at large until I manage to discover a method of achieving it that doesn't involve undeath and gets around the problem of overpopulation. Until that problem is solved, I'd reserve it for myself and a few choice people.
Once a solution is found - digitalization, colonizing other worlds, creating a bunch of residential demiplanes, whatever it ends up being - then maybe share it.
Or maybe just take my friends, leave the world and go explore the cosmos/planes/multiverses for all eternity. Who knows.
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What kinda selfish asshat would only help their friends?
One who isn't all that fond of humanity in general.
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Entire world, natch.
What kinda selfish asshat would only help their friends?
The devil is in the details. Most 20th level Wizards are not likely to have unlocked the secrets of immortality off the back of a package of Keebler Soft Batch Chocolate Chip Cookies (now made from real elves!) as a DIY recipe.
So it is entirely possible that the only type of immortality a Wizard may be able to confer that doesn't involve creating the undead instead involves either limited wish-powered reincarnation or becoming a golem of some sort.
Now that is a racket and a half: I am the only source of reliable eternal youth (via reincarnate). Time to pay up rich folk! Use the proceeds to perform pro-bono reincarnate, proceed to go insane from the overwhelming public attention.... erm, lemme rethink that plan ...
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A ring of sustenance and a portable hole work wonders to solve problems with overpopulation.
If you're really worried about it (I'm not, the universe is infinite and I can move faster than light) (and craft magic items allowing others to do the same) (not to mention that the infinite planes are . . . well, infinite) (and after I'm done purging the place, no one else will be using the lower planes for anything, so ... squatters rights, I suppose) if you're really worried about it, just require everyone who wants immortality take a geas not to procreate.
Really, the idea of overpopulating a magical setting is frankly ludicrous.
One who isn't all that fond of humanity in general.
That's a point of view antithetical to everything I am.
I'm not terribly fond of humanity in general, either. I see where you're coming from there. But . . . the thing is, a world where cynics like you and I give up on humanity is a world neither of us want to live in.
You aren't my friend. I'm not trying to be rude, you're an interesting person who's posts I usually find myself agreeing with. But we don't really know each other, and we aren't friends. A world where I only take care of the people that I care about is a world where if I had the power to help you, I wouldn't. A world where you only take care of the people that you care about is a world where if you had the power to help me, you wouldn't.
A world where people only take care of the people they care about is a world where people like Oskar Schindler keep their heads down and themselves out of trouble, is a world where people like William Tyndale keep their religious views to themselves and is a world where English speakers have to take other people's word for it as to what's written in the Bible, is a world where Thomas Paine died a public hero rather than an ostracized and tragic figure, but is also a world less clear headed for having had him. A world where people only look after number one and associates is a world where Sophie Scholl lived to ripe old age and died peacefully in bed. Or, perhaps died in bed haunted by pangs of conscience.
I think that'd be a worse world than the one we have, which is pretty bad. I think the one we've got could be made better if we all tried a little harder to be more like Thomas Paine and Sophie Scholl.
I'm not terribly fond of humanity. In general, they're a cantankerous lot, not much in the way of conversation and quite unpleasant to be around. But there are wonderful people in the world, and most of them are not my friends. When I can help someone, I try and do it, because I want to live in a world where people like me help people like you, and people like you help people like me.
And everyone is precious to themself. I might not like most people, but how's my opinion better than there's? And the opinions of all the people who love them. Besides, I'd like to live in a world where awful terrible people help people like me, and people like me help awful terrible people. It's win-win, really.
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If you look at my profile, you'll notice I'm not Good aligned.
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If you look at my profile, you'll notice I'm not Good aligned.
orthos is my opposite number and if I was a level 20 wizard, I would get him something cool. Like a trip to the plane of law or something. Just dont ask me to hang out with you there or anything. I'm on my way to the red light district on the plane of water to enjoy time with moderately priced merladies of the hour.
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I'm also not exactly good-aligned, but I do think a greater good (the greater good) is necessary to focus on. However, forget immortality. I'd focus more on education. Demiplane libraries, simulacra made for job training. The better trained and educated people are, the more likely society is to function smoothly...and people can find their fixes for immortality and such in a more gradual and sustainable way.
I think my main problem with AsmoAdvo's insistence is that it relies on the idea of "if you have the power to do something good and fail to,do so, that makes you evil", which I don't buy into.
I would not be killing anyone if I failed to share the secrets of immortality with the world upon gaining phenomenal cosmic powers and all the living space I can dream of, provided I'm not going around nailing people with attack spells. The status quo would simply be maintained, and people would die of the usual natural causes, accidents, stupidity, and misfortune. This does not somehow become my fault just because I found a way out of the cycle and chose not to share, and blaming such is little more than envy.
It may or may not be, ethically speaking, the "right thing to do". But failing to,or choosing not to do so does not mean I am suddenly to blame for the world continuing to operate by the normal natural laws that have existed for all prior eternity.
Which of course begs the question of whether a wizard who gains immortality in your table's games is likewise treated as a selfish hoarder if s/he fails to share their secrets with the world...?
I think my main problem with AsmoAdvo's insistence is that it relies on the idea of "if you have the power to do something good and fail to,do so, that makes you evil", which I don't buy into.
I would not be killing anyone if I failed to share the secrets of immortality with the world upon gaining phenomenal cosmic powers and all the living space I can dream of, provided I'm not going around nailing people with attack spells. The status quo would simply be maintained, and people would die of the usual natural causes, accidents, stupidity, and misfortune. This does not somehow become my fault just because I found a way out of the cycle and chose not to share, and blaming such is little more than envy.
It may or may not be, ethically speaking, the "right thing to do". But failing to,or choosing not to do so does not mean I am suddenly to blame for the world continuing to operate by the normal natural laws that have existed for all prior eternity.
Which of course begs the question of whether a wizard who gains immortality in your table's games is likewise treated as a selfish hoarder if s/he fails to share their secrets with the world...?
I view it like that star trek episode where lt. Barclay got super smart- the wizard knows what to do, but can't really explain it to others very well, if at all.