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Where can I find the PF2 character sheets ?
I hope they made the attacks block more in line with players' real needs : not one line for each weapon, but rather one line of stats for each attack style (say favored attack 1, favored attack 2, default attack for Melee and the same for Ranged) and then stats for weapon damage
Because PCs usually have only a few weapons they invested in with money and feats and class features while they sometimes use other weapons for backup or corner cases and the latter usually have the same attack stats but different damage
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One question I have when reading the sheet is how/when persistent damage works.
So, I throw an acid bomb.
Does the target even get damaged on my round? Or is it just marked as "1d4 persistent acid damage" and takes that at the end of their round? If so, is it posible that the target uses actions to end the damage and takes no damage at all?
Or does it work like 1d4 acid damage on hit on the throwers turn AND then 1d4 persistent at the end of targets turn? If this is right, Alchemists Fire deals 1d8+1 on hit and then 1 persistent damage.
I am probably most excited to play Alchemist. Has anyone heard if thrown weapons can attack with strength? I ask this for no particular reason.Nope! But if I had to hunch it, it's only Dex. Because it really makes no sense for Str to be involved in lobbing a bomb. Throwing a javelin or handaxe perhaps, not a bomb.
But again that's just my opinion.
Basketball players all over our world disagree with you.
That said, I don't mind if PF2e makes it Dex.
Do you aim with your str or your dex?
I think many thrown weapons could use str for damage (and if one wanted to get complicated, range), but it's already unrealistic that *melee* attacks depend on str. Ideally (and this is not a complaint, just a consideration), you'd always need dex to hit, be that with a sword, a maul or a shuriken, while strength would influence the amount of damage with mostly anything (bows and crossbows have their own strength, and you'd need to have an equal amount to use them efficiently).
This is only vaguely related to Fumbus and alchemists, though, so I apologize for the threadjacking.
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I think DEX-to-damage is worse than online image sharing communities (so pretty damn bad)Ha, yeah, this is one of 5th Ed's egregious design errors, along with grappling being tied to Athletics (and Expertise).
Honestly I can't say that Athletics to grapple has ever annoyed me. It's a quick answer, relatively intuitive IMO, and makes it clear how you'd improvise similar actions. It helps that for most other things bar swimming Athletics is competing against Acrobatics which runs off of Dex. I can see the expertise thing getting annoying though although I suspect part of me would be happy if my players tried it.
Also I feel like I should mention that I kind of like the name Fumbus.
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Inherently not bad, but the situation in 5th Ed, is a 9th-level Bard or Rogue with a good Str and Expertise in Athletics can go around pinning Pit Fiends to the ground with impunity.Honestly I can't say that Athletics to grapple has ever annoyed me. It's a quick answer, relatively intuitive IMO, and makes it clear how you'd improvise similar actionsI think DEX-to-damage is worse than online image sharing communities (so pretty damn bad)Ha, yeah, this is one of 5th Ed's egregious design errors, along with grappling being tied to Athletics (and Expertise).
Yeah that complaint is fair, but bar said situations I quite like athletics to grappling.
So it fits goblins perfectly?The dogslicer seems surprisingly goodHate the name, goofy sounding, adolescent, garbage name, like sawtooth anything, that kind of crap.
And the very reason, I wish they were not a core option.
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Cleric is up for perusal. Has the heal power changed since the blog?
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Scimitars seem good for combat dancers.
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Where can I find the PF2 character sheets ?
I hope they made the attacks block more in line with players' real needs : not one line for each weapon, but rather one line of stats for each attack style (say favored attack 1, favored attack 2, default attack for Melee and the same for Ranged) and then stats for weapon damage
Because PCs usually have only a few weapons they invested in with money and feats and class features while they sometimes use other weapons for backup or corner cases and the latter usually have the same attack stats but different damage
The official Character Sheets were revealed as part of this stream. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LI7Wo5Jtms&feature=youtu.be
In general, I like what I see. Comments/thoughts:
I don't like that her Athletics bonus is left off the sheet. I get that she has Assurance(Athletics), and won't be rolling for DCs 10 and under; that's probably a very good thing, given the penalty from chain mail. But I like to see scores for every skill I am trained in; it's possible (though likely a bad idea) that I'd want to attempt a task harder than DC 10 with her.
Seems kinda weird that Spell Roll +5 is on the sheet, but her Fire Ray is a +2 touch attack; people accustomed to e.g. 5E might see Spell Roll and her domain power but not look up at the Strikes to see the +2. Then again, that's how touch attacks always worked in Pathfinder, so people coming from old Pathfinder will be fine.
I wonder what General Training got her. Probably more trained skills?
Typo on a spells line: Bless and Sanctuary aren't cantrips.
No attack cantrip; either Clerics don't get them or Kyra is supposed to rely on her scimitar and Fire domain for combat. I guess that's similarly on-brand for Pathfinder, though I do hope that less melee-oriented casters will have combat cantrips.
I'm disappointed to see that slings need an action to reload, also why not give ray spells and powers a hit bonus equal to casting mod plus proficiency?
I'm disappointed to see that slings need an action to reload ...
They also made them only get half STR mod to damage.
I'm disappointed to see that slings need an action to reload ...They also made them only get half STR mod to damage.
That makes no sense.
This sentence:
You can cast the following power by spending 1 Spell Point
Really drives home why "Spell Point" is a stupid name, doesn't it?
Also, don't get excited about Bless being a cantrip, it's just accidentally listed as one on the first page, the second page correctly lists it as a 1st level spell.
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This sentence:
You can cast the following power by spending 1 Spell PointReally drives home why "Spell Point" is a stupid name, doesn't it?
Also, don't get excited about Bless being a cantrip, it's just accidentally listed as one on the first page, the second page correctly lists it as a 1st level spell.
I don't see your hang up, like, at all. Spell points are used to cast powers, which are a type of spell, just like how the other type of spell is cast using spell slots.
I don't see your hang up, like, at all. Spell points are used to cast powers, which are a type of spell, just like how the other type of spell is cast using spell slots.This sentence:
You can cast the following power by spending 1 Spell PointReally drives home why "Spell Point" is a stupid name, doesn't it?
Also, don't get excited about Bless being a cantrip, it's just accidentally listed as one on the first page, the second page correctly lists it as a 1st level spell.
If I'm casting it, why don't they call it a spell? I can't recall any other game where characters get powers and the activation of those powers is referred to as casting them. If it needs to be referred to as a power because it's somehow different than a spell, why isn't it triggered by spending a power point?
I'm disappointed to see that slings need an action to reload ...They also made them only get half STR mod to damage.
Yeah didnt notice at first, my guess is that they dont want it competing with composite bows, on that note why not make all bows composite from the beginning?
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If I'm casting it, why don't they call it a spell? I can't recall any other game where characters get powers and the activation of those powers is referred to as casting them. If it needs to be referred to as a power because it's somehow different than a spell, why isn't it triggered by spending a power point?I don't see your hang up, like, at all. Spell points are used to cast powers, which are a type of spell, just like how the other type of spell is cast using spell slots.This sentence:
You can cast the following power by spending 1 Spell PointReally drives home why "Spell Point" is a stupid name, doesn't it?
Also, don't get excited about Bless being a cantrip, it's just accidentally listed as one on the first page, the second page correctly lists it as a 1st level spell.
It is a spell? It uses the spell rules for everything, other characters will be affected by it the same way as every other spell, it uses the same actions to perform, but it's called a power to be clear that it's from a different mechanical source than where capital S Spells come from, using spell points and comes from class features and feats, rather than slots and the spellcasting feature/traditions.
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Okay, IMVHO:
1) slings get 1/2 strength because strength is important with propulsive weapons, I don't think bows or x-bows will get strength.
2) How can you NOT spend an action to reload a sling? Do they materialize in the sling's pouch already formed? BS.
3) I don't see the big problem. For spells you use spell slots, for powers you use spell points. Not rocket science.
I love Kyra, I think clerics are gonna be awesome. I'm also hoping warpriests will make a comeback, but if there's a warpriest archetype for cleric (or even for anyone) I'll be happy as a clam.
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Yeah didnt notice at first, my guess is that they dont want it competing with composite bows, on that note why not make all bows composite from the beginning?I'm disappointed to see that slings need an action to reload ...They also made them only get half STR mod to damage.
Because not all bows are composite?
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And wow, are weapons complicated now. I understand that this is done to make them different from each other, but that Scimitar? YOu hit better if you attack different People but do more damage if you attack the same guy, one bonus scales, the other doesn't... That does not sound beginner friendly.
And bless is a "conditional" Bonus. Is that a new type I wasn't aware of? Does it stack?
+1 to the really strange idea of having a spell Bonus but not using it on any of her spells.
The way heal works as damage vs undead is also Counter intuitive.
As a touch spell, it's an attack, as a ranged spell, it's a save by the Monster - why? Why not just make it an attack and use the spell Bonus for both, as any beginner would expect it to.
And finally, Kyra Shows that they have a Long way to go if the want to have fewer pools to track - she has four different pools at Level 1 - spells, spell Points, channel energy and resonance. That does not scream streamlined to me.
Weapons are a fair bit more complex, but players generally only need to learn one weapon or two at a time (god help the GM , but they should be knowing what they're getting into if they see all of the weapon complexity and go straight into using NPCs using a ton of different weapons with different properties). And leveraging the full benefit of all the properties of a weapon isn't easy for a beginner, the traits themselves seem to be fairly straightforward most of the time. Scimitars get a +1 to hit if you switch targets in a turn, and the weapon gets a +1 to damage on the second attack against any target, and a +2 on any attacks after that, if they make one.
Heal isn't a touch spell? It's got 3 different forms of targeting, melee touch, simply choosing a target without regard for accuracy (though you could make it ranged touch by doing the 1 action version with reach metamagic, but I digress), and targeting everything in a 30ft radius. It's a bit weird that the touch version targets AC, but the other two versions don't target AC, but it's not that much of a burden. They probably don't want the players to have to deal with their ranged heal spell on an ally missing.
Kyra has a lot of pools, but that's the tragic fate of being a spellcaster. Spell points for spell powers, Spell Slots for Spells, Channel energy as the cleric alternate for School Spells/Wildshape bonus spells. Ideally most people playing spellcasters are going to get the gist of it before resonance becomes something to manage and more than the very easy to remember "this goes down by one when I drink this potion or use this scroll and it will get a bit weird if I run out"
Thankfully other than spells, for a cleric, the pools are distinct and are only used for 1 thing (if you don't take feats that expand it) at first level.
I wonder wether thrown weapons also use the "propulsive" rule and add only half STR bonus to damage. I guess so, at least without feats. Because what else are sling bullets other then thrown stones?
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I wonder wether thrown weapons also use the "propulsive" rule and add only half STR bonus to damage. I guess so, at least without feats. Because what else are sling bullets other then thrown stones?
No, just ... no.
Slings are far more effective than throwing stones. The entire point of a sling is to generate more energy for both distance and impact on target.
A sling bullet in game terms has been described as a half-pound mostly aerodynamic hunk of lead. So, the core of a baseball - or a golfball - made of solid lead wound up and hurled with accuracy is probably going to do a lot more damage than a rock.
David vs. Goliath is a Thing.
If anything, from a mechanics perspective, slings taking 2 (or maybe 3 with certain combat options) actions to load and fire should do 1.5x STR mod or 2x STR mod additional damage.
How are crossbows done in Nouveau Pathfinder? Do they take a reload action? I assume so since slings do as well. Heck, a crossbow may take two actions to reload, but deal a lot of base damage dice. I don't know.
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(...)
The way heal works as damage vs undead is also Counter intuitive.
As a touch spell, it's an attack, as a ranged spell, it's a save by the Monster - why? Why not just make it an attack and use the spell Bonus for both, as any beginner would expect it to.
And finally, Kyra Shows that they have a Long way to go if the want to have fewer pools to track - she has four different pools at Level 1 - spells, spell Points, channel energy and resonance. That does not scream streamlined to me.
Yeah, the mechanical difference between touch and range when targetting undead is confusing. I think it is because of balancing. When spending two actions you can make use of your Spell DC that probably is better than your ranged attack if it were a ranged touch attack.
As for the many pools. I think they explained why channel energy uses a seperate pool - to not make healing take away resources that can be spent otherwise. If they made it use spell points, more people would cry that cleric is only a heal bot.
I wonder wether thrown weapons also use the "propulsive" rule and add only half STR bonus to damage. I guess so, at least without feats. Because what else are sling bullets other then thrown stones?No, just ... no.
Slings are far more effective than throwing stones. The entire point of a sling is to generate more energy for both distance and impact on target.
(..)
Yes, I'm with you! I think I wrote it bad...
I didn't want to say that slings should have only half STR to damage. No, I would find it counter-intuitive if thrown weapons would add full STR if slings only add half. Just throwing a thing with bare hands shouldn't add more STR than using a tool to do so (sling).
I hope that with the current sling implementation, throwing weapons also only add half STR.
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I wonder wether thrown weapons also use the "propulsive" rule and add only half STR bonus to damage. I guess so, at least without feats. Because what else are sling bullets other then thrown stones?No, just ... no.
Slings are far more effective than throwing stones. The entire point of a sling is to generate more energy for both distance and impact on target.
(..)
Yes, I'm with you! I think I wrote it bad...
I didn't want to say that slings should have only half STR to damage. No, I would find it counter-intuitive if thrown weapons would add full STR if slings only add half. Just throwing a thing with bare hands shouldn't add more STR than using a tool to do so (sling).
I hope that with the current sling implementation, throwing weapons also only add half STR.
I'd rather they did away with fractional bonuses altogether. We'll see in 3 weeks I suppose. :)
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Because not all bows are composite?Yeah didnt notice at first, my guess is that they dont want it competing with composite bows, on that note why not make all bows composite from the beginning?I'm disappointed to see that slings need an action to reload ...They also made them only get half STR mod to damage.
I'd rather have all bows add str to damage from the get go, I doubt it will break level 1, I asume that the sling is a simple weapon and as such should be weaker than a bow which is why it has the reload property, Im just disapointed because I wanted to try an urban rogue that favored a sling not because I dont understand the design choice. That said I still think that most range weapons should add str to damage from the get go, slings included
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And wow, are weapons complicated now. I understand that this is done to make them different from each other, but that Scimitar? YOu hit better if you attack different People but do more damage if you attack the same guy, one bonus scales, the other doesn't... That does not sound beginner friendly.
Note that forceful doesn't specify the same target there, it just gets stronger on each attack in a turn. It comes across simpler as "it does more damage each time it attacks. It's more accurate if you use your second attack on a different person."
And bless is a "conditional" Bonus. Is that a new type I wasn't aware of? Does it stack?
Based on this I suspect that "conditional" mods are mostly reserved for spells and feats, while "circumstantial" mods are for what's physically going on. I don't think the same type of mod will stack with itself.
Ugly, misused terminology seems to be the major hallmark of PF2. 'Propulsive' ranks up there with 'irreligious' for words that don't work they way you're abusing them.
For the pregen cleric specifically: why that spell selection?
Does assurance even matter when you don't have a bonus to athletics? (Are any DCs down at 10?
What does general training do?
What could lore: farming actually do for a character? Is taking a lore somehow mandatory?
Looking at both sheets, so far I think I'd rather play Fumbus.
What does “3 bulk, 9 light” mean after bulk?
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What could lore: farming actually do for a character? Is taking a lore somehow mandatory?
AFAIK you always get at least one lore, from your background. Lore farming can be used as profession(farming) to earn some cash, or for knowledge checks regarding farming.
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What does “3 bulk, 9 light” mean after bulk?
Bulk increases in tens. 10 "light" things give you 1 bulk. Past an amount based on your str bulk encumbers you. There's a max amount of bulk you can handle. Bulk is based off of size and weight. So little things like say, a vial or a dagger, would probably count as a light object.
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In general I'm pretty happy with these. I'm finding the icons pretty helpful, although I wonder if that would change if it were in black and white. I can intuit how most of these numbers were reached easily which is great.
Also fun to see the touch AC gap grow more. Not surprising, but a nice confirmation.
In general, I like what I see. Comments/thoughts:
I don't like that her Athletics bonus is left off the sheet. I get that she has Assurance(Athletics), and won't be rolling for DCs 10 and under; that's probably a very good thing, given the penalty from chain mail. But I like to see scores for every skill I am trained in; it's possible (though likely a bad idea) that I'd want to attempt a task harder than DC 10 with her.
For a second I wondered if she wasn't trained in athletics at all, but looking at the Assurance results I'm almost positive she is. I feel like listing the athletics bonus would also give us some insight into chainmail's ACP. As is I'm not sure what Kyra rolls for stealth. It is possible the pre-gens just won't need that for the sessions they are used for, where as we know the actual sheet has this stuff.
On a related note: Anyone else notice she seems to have training a lot of skills for a cleric with 10 INT? 6 on the sheet, plus presumably Assurance. We know at least Lore is from background. Does Assurance grant training? Or can you actually take it without being trained? Does it do anything in that case? It seems like one of these has to be true.
But even with us only needing to account for 5 outside of background, that is a lot. Either being a human gets you bonus skills again, or clerics have an way too many skill points compared to martials. :/
Seems kinda weird that Spell Roll +5 is on the sheet, but her Fire Ray is a +2 touch attack; people accustomed to e.g. 5E might see Spell Roll and her domain power but not look up at the Strikes to see the +2. Then again, that's how touch attacks always worked in Pathfinder, so people coming from old Pathfinder will be fine.
Indeed, I am wondering what spell roll is actually for.
I wonder what General Training got her. Probably more trained skills?
I believe General Training is some kind of human thing that lets you take general feats in place of ancestry feats. Note Fumbus has no general feat.
Related note: Looks like toughness grants 4 bonus HP at level 1.
No attack cantrip; either Clerics don't get them or Kyra is supposed to rely on her scimitar and Fire domain for combat. I guess that's similarly on-brand for Pathfinder, though I do hope that less melee-oriented casters will have combat cantrips.
They kind of have to. Sorcerers can use the same spell list and won't have weapons to rely on. I assume it just seemed like a waste of a cantrip slot with two other ranged options.
Ugly, misused terminology seems to be the major hallmark of PF2. 'Propulsive' ranks up there with 'irreligious' for words that don't work they way you're abusing them.
For the pregen cleric specifically: why that spell selection?
Does assurance even matter when you don't have a bonus to athletics? (Are any DCs down at 10?
What does general training do?
What could lore: farming actually do for a character? Is taking a lore somehow mandatory?
Lores are mandatory in the sense you get at least one by default because every Background gives you Lore: X. As for what they do for a character: downtime money. Despite it's rather weird name, Lore is actually the old Profession skill, just...renamed for no good reason.
As for Athletics, her bonus would be +3 (+1 level, +2 Str). No idea why it isn't listed, since she has to be Trained to have Assurance. Also goes to show Assurance is just a poor man's Take 10, even at lower levels.
Also, we know Bless requires an action to mantain each round, is that what "Concentration" means? Which would mean Forbidding Ward is on the same boat? Long live buff spells, I suppose.
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I'd rather have all bows add str to damage from the get go, I doubt it will break level 1, I asume that the sling is a simple weapon and as such should be weaker than a bow which is why it has the reload property, Im just disapointed because I wanted to try an urban rogue that favored a sling not because I dont understand the design choice. That said I still think that most range weapons should add str to damage from the get go, slings includedBecause not all bows are composite?Yeah didnt notice at first, my guess is that they dont want it competing with composite bows, on that note why not make all bows composite from the beginning?I'm disappointed to see that slings need an action to reload ...They also made them only get half STR mod to damage.
Even Crossbows ?
STR 8 characters would not be amused| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'd rather have all bows add str to damage from the get go, I doubt it will break level 1, I asume that the sling is a simple weapon and as such should be weaker than a bow which is why it has the reload property, Im just disapointed because I wanted to try an urban rogue that favored a sling not because I dont understand the design choice. That said I still think that most range weapons should add str to damage from the get go, slings includedBecause not all bows are composite?Yeah didnt notice at first, my guess is that they dont want it competing with composite bows, on that note why not make all bows composite from the beginning?I'm disappointed to see that slings need an action to reload ...They also made them only get half STR mod to damage.Even Crossbows ?
STR 8 characters would not be amused
Personally I kinda hope crossbows have a flat damage mod, making them the ranged weapons of choice for the weak, with composite bows actually better for excessively rugged barbarians.
I'd rather have all bows add str to damage from the get go, I doubt it will break level 1, I asume that the sling is a simple weapon and as such should be weaker than a bow which is why it has the reload property, Im just disapointed because I wanted to try an urban rogue that favored a sling not because I dont understand the design choice. That said I still think that most range weapons should add str to damage from the get go, slings includedBecause not all bows are composite?Yeah didnt notice at first, my guess is that they dont want it competing with composite bows, on that note why not make all bows composite from the beginning?I'm disappointed to see that slings need an action to reload ...They also made them only get half STR mod to damage.Even Crossbows ?
STR 8 characters would not be amused
Crossbows would be the exemption, maybe make an aditional version of bows that does not add str to damage
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What could lore: farming actually do for a character? Is taking a lore somehow mandatory?
Lores are mandatory in the sense you get at least one by default because every Background gives you Lore: X. As for what they do for a character: downtime money. Despite it's rather weird name, Lore is actually the old Profession skill, just...renamed for no good reason.
As for Athletics, her bonus would be +3 (+1 level, +2 Str). No idea why it isn't listed, since she has to be Trained to have Assurance. Also goes to show Assurance is just a poor man's Take 10, even at lower levels.
Also, we know Bless requires an action to mantain each round, is that what "Concentration" means? Which would mean Forbidding Ward is on the same boat? Long live buff spells, I suppose.
I'll note chainmail almost certainly has an ACP of at least +2, so her athletics score is probably 1 at most. Assurance is actually pretty great because it can be used in situations where you couldn't take 10 before, like combat. Climbing a wall in the GC playtest was only DC 10, but because they were doing it while a character was dying at the bottom of a pit taking 10 wouldn't have been an option. As such, Assurance may have saved not one but two characters' lives
Lore also can be used like a knowledge check, just for a very narrow and less relevant field. However, if you find yourself needing to roll a knowledge check that could pertain to either Narure or Farming, Farming will probably have the lower DC.
Ugly, misused terminology seems to be the major hallmark of PF2. 'Propulsive' ranks up there with 'irreligious' for words that don't work they way you're abusing them.
Irreligious is straight out of PF1, though.
For the pregen cleric specifically: why that spell selection?
Seem like pretty straight forward spell choices to me?
What does general training do?
Mentioned above, lets humans take general feats for ancestry feats. May also grant some extra skill training.
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As for Athletics, her bonus would be +3 (+1 level, +2 Str). No idea why it isn't listed, since she has to be Trained to have Assurance. Also goes to show Assurance is just a poor man's Take 10, even at lower levels.
Actually... I think she's untrained in athletics. If she is, and even if she isn't, it would mean that cleric has an absurd number of skills 5-6 even. She's apparently trained in religion, medicine, performance, diplomacy, and survival already.
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Cleric is up for perusal. Has the heal power changed since the blog?
It doesn't appear so.
Okay, IMVHO:
1) slings get 1/2 strength because strength is important with propulsive weapons, I don't think bows or x-bows will get strength.
We know Composite bows can get it, but normal bows can't. Crossbows are probably just out of luck.
2) How can you NOT spend an action to reload a sling? Do they materialize in the sling's pouch already formed? BS.
Eh. Putting an arrow to the string isn't an action in PF1, but loading a sling bullet is. That's a fairly arbitrary distinction between the two (the sling probably does take longer...but not nearly as much as a crossbow, which is also an action to reload). I don't object to it, but it's not strictly necessary either.
3) I don't see the big problem. For spells you use spell slots, for powers you use spell points. Not rocket science.
Yeah,this makes sense to me, too.
I love Kyra, I think clerics are gonna be awesome. I'm also hoping warpriests will make a comeback, but if there's a warpriest archetype for cleric (or even for anyone) I'll be happy as a clam.
I dunno if Warpriest is gonna be necessary if combat clerics are viable. We'll see.
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Other stuff:
I'm not sure Kyra is actually trained in Athletics. Her Assurance comes from her Background, and it's possible that Background Skill Feats ignore prerequisites.
General Training seems to give at least one bonus Trained skill, maybe more. That's a solid thing for a Human Ancestry Feat to do.
Toughness gives +4 HP at 1st level. Nice.
I'm now slightly concerned about ranged weapon damage. Slings only adding 1/2 Str is workable if there are ways to enhance them somehow (Halflings apparently have an Ancestry Feat...) because they're a Simple Weapon, but if that's the cap for ranged weapons in general, and is combined with lower damage dice than melee weapons...I'm then a tad concerned about ranged character viability.
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That is a painful stat array, even with the new stat generation system.
I disagree. The array is pretty solid. You could theoretically have Str 16, Cha 12 and be a better combatant...but worse at healing and with less Resonance. That's a choice some people would make, but I'm not sure it's strictly better.