I can't find a rule to support this, but events in society scenario 1-05, and near the end of Dead Suns 2 lead me to believe that grenade/explosive damage will stack. For example if I wire up 5 grenades to a detonator and detonate them all at once, I would expect all 5 grenades to each do separate damage. Is there a rule either way?
The "exploit" would be to buy twenty, 35 credit, frag grenades and detonate them for 20d6 damage for a total cost of 1100 credits (including detonators). An equivalent damaging explosive is the level 20 Frag VIII for 216,000 credits which does 20d6.
That makes sense to me, just like if you managed to rig up for twenty Azimuth Laser Pistols or their equivalents to all fire at the same time (maybe via remote control from a computer). The only thing that makes me question it is the line in the Detonator's description that states "Programming a detonator to a specific package of explosives takes 1 minute".
However, if I was DM'ing a campaign, I'd say that it'd just take 1 minute per grenade, which just increases set-up time a little, as it never specifies that you can't have multiple explosives keyed up to the same detonator. You'd also need to keep in mind that the package of twenty grenades would collectively have 2 Bulk now, so you can't throw them like you would the Frag VIII Grenade, but I think that it makes sense that they'd each add damage to those caught in their radius.
Styrofoam wrote: The "exploit" would be to buy twenty, 35 credit, frag grenades and detonate them for 20d6 damage for a total cost of 1100 credits (including detonators). An equivalent damaging explosive is the level 20 Frag VIII for 216,000 credits which does 20d6. The downside seems to be the weight (2 bulk for the grenades, and maybe 2 bulks for the detonators if you put one in each), the 20 minutes to set all up, the fact that it couldn't be used as a thrown weapon (you could place it on a moving object though), and that it doesn't cause 20d6, but 1d6 twenty times, with a saving throw for each (with a ridiculously low DC), easily ignored by any creature with a little bit of DR, any equipment of level 1 or above or any objects made of wood or better.
It sounds amusing, but would probably be very annoying, slow and not quite effective.
It probably won't be allowed for balance reasons, PCs aren't supposed to have access to useful amounts of explosives. NPCs get a pass for 'story'. It's the same reason that the APs generally don't allow aircars, poisonous gases, or radioactive materials. Breaks encounters.
Yeah. There's a big difference between 20×1d6 and 1×20d6. Even if you wanted to use that instance not as a weapon but as explosives to say, blow a door off.
Damage reduction and energy resistance is a big factor. 1d6 has a hard time hurting anything. If a door has hardness 10, no amount of 1d6 grenades can hurt it.
So you can't really throw a bulk 2 item, you need to wire them together, and though the damage variance is the same in theory, even very minor DR/ER will negate it. Additionally, item level is considered in the DCs to avoid grenades, so the DCs would wind up so low anything high enough level without DR would simply avoid it naturally.
Starfinder Charter Superscriber
This is one of those instances where it will likely never work for a PC but has to work for the world, since the cost of items scales non-linearly you'll run into a situation where because of the hardness of materials you'll never be able to demolish a building if the damage doesn't get applied all at once, but such would break the game from a PC perspective.
Which is probably why you don't use grenades to demolish a structure bigger and sturdier than a backyard shed.
I'd like to think the armory book will include some explosives that don't fit into the 'anti personnel' area.
Shaudius wrote: This is one of those instances where it will likely never work for a PC but has to work for the world, since the cost of items scales non-linearly you'll run into a situation where because of the hardness of materials you'll never be able to demolish a building if the damage doesn't get applied all at once, but such would break the game from a PC perspective. I'd imagine this is something that you'd probably fit together with some sort of series of Engineering Checks, combining the Arm Explosives check (which is something I'd forgotten about) and the Determine Structural Weak Point check. So, you make some large check or series of checks to wire up the explosives in such a way that they count as one big explosive, and at weak points so they are able to ignore some amount of hardness.
But yeah, now you have to consider the Arm Explosives check, which basically means that when you are wiring twenty grenades together, you are going to have to roll twenty Arm Explosives checks, and the DM might rule that wiring multiple explosives altogether will increase the difficulty of later checks.
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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
I'v e always been fond of d20 Modern's method of handling it. If using the same type of explosives, I'd allow it to add two extra dice of damage for each doubling of the payload.
Using 10d6 grenades? One does 10d6, two does 12d6, four does 14d6, eight does 16d6, sixteen does 18d6, etc.
With grenade prices being what they are, this keeps it from getting totally out of hand.
Ravingdork wrote: I'v e always been fond of d20 Modern's method of handling it. If using the same type of explosives, I'd allow it to add two extra dice of damage for each doubling of the payload.
Using 10d6 grenades? One does 10d6, two does 12d6, four does 14d6, eight does 16d6, sixteen does 18d6, etc.
With grenade prices being what they are, this keeps it from getting totally out of hand.
So that progression (2 extra dice per doubling of payload) would be something like (for basic lvl 1 frag grenades, which is more likely what people will use at lower levels due to cost)?
1: 1D6
2: 3D6 -- a small damage boost
4: 5D6 -- also a small damage boost
8: 7D8 -- here is where diminishing returns set in.
16: 9D6
32: 11D6
64: 13D6
I like that idea give than it makes sense some of the explosive power would actually be opposed by the individual explosives and therefore dissipated. As smaller quantities, it gives you a slight boost but as you pack more together, the diminishing returns would grow larger and larger. If all the actual material were combined, or if shaped charges were used (something not currently listed in-game), this would be different, but with a grenade, the force expands is a sphere. Any of that force that encounters the force of a neighboring grenade would end up being dissipated or at least reduced significantly, which means only the explosive power actually directed outwards would cause damage. The more grenades, the more damage, but definitely not 1:1. Yes. I like this idea a lot.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ravingdork, that is a great idea. I will have to remember that.
I think the lesson today is: when you want to blow a structure up, don't bring grenades, bring satchel charges. ;)
( Which I'm sure will be in Armory, nice big packs of explosives that do a ton of damage, but can't really be wielded as weapons, and have to be properly placed to do good damage. )
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