I am currently the proud player of a level 12 witch, about to start playing Eyes of the Ten; and it occered to me that I might want to pick up improved familiar next level. However, as my spells are stored in my familiar, I would lose them when I did this, so I checked the rules in the APG for replaceing a Witch Familiar whaich said
"If a familiar is lost or dies, it can be replaced 1 day later through a special ritual that costs 500 gp per witch level. The ritual takes 8 hours to complete. A new familiar begins knowing all of the 0-level spells plus two spells of every level the witch is able to cast. These are in addition to any bonus spells known by the familiar based on the witch's level and her patron (see patron spells)."
Now there are 2 possible ways that this could be interprated;
1: I lose all of my current spells known and gain 2 spells of each level i can cast + patron spell, which seems uneccisarily punative, as im effectively loseing 2 spells per spell level +1+ starting Int mod 1st level.
or 2: I lose all of my current spells known, and gain 2 spells per spell level + patron spells + 2 spells per witch level +3 + Int mod 1st level spells, which seems unecesarily generous, for 1 feat(improved familiar) or 500GP per character level(to replace a dead or unbonded familiar)
I looked through the errat document, and the FAQ's for the CRB, the APG, and Organized play, to see if any of them could shed some light on the issue, but the only referances I found to changeing familiars were the entry in the CRB FAQ saying
"This isn't addressed in the rules anywhere, but yes, you should be able to dismiss a familiar if you want to select a new one. However, you must still wait 1 week and pay 200 gp for the 8-hour ritual. Dismissing a familiar is ending a link between your soul and it, so it should probably take about an hour.
The exception to the above is if you take the Improved Familiar feat, which allows you to immediately replace your familiar with the new familiar, at no cost or time required (it is assumed this occurs during whatever preparations you make while leveling up)...." and the Organized play FAQ that says the you replace a familiar between adventures by paying all of the normal costs.
Just have the old familiar teach the new familiar the spells, kiss the old familiar on the head, and wish it well for faithful service.
Brock's statements are authoritative for Society play, right?
(You may want to read the previous posts in that thread for context.)
Semi-relevant FAQ: Link
The exception to the above is if you take the Improved Familiar feat, which allows you to immediately replace your familiar with the new familiar, at no cost or time required (it is assumed this occurs during whatever preparations you make while leveling up).
Having to replace your spells would be a cost, so you shouldn't have to worry about that.
I would highly recommend a Stone Familiar (UE page 320). You could purchase it for 6k in the right setting, or craft it at half-price. It doesn't replace your familiar, but it safely stores your spells. So if a familiar bites the dust, you can prevent having lost all those great spells you had added to your base spells/level (e.g., from scrolls etc.).
I'm playing an 8th level Witch currently.
Semi-relevant FAQ: Link
The exception to the above is if you take the Improved Familiar feat, which allows you to immediately replace your familiar with the new familiar, at no cost or time required (it is assumed this occurs during whatever preparations you make while leveling up).Having to replace your spells would be a cost, so you shouldn't have to worry about that.
That's a bit of a stretch, but good enough for me. In any case, PFS has apparently already weighed in on the subject for Brock's campaign, and this appears to be a PFS game, so Bob's your uncle.
That's a bit of a stretch, but good enough for me.
Maybe a stretch, but it also shows that there is an intent for a character to not be penalized for taking this feat. So, we can be nearly 100% certain that if there were an official answer to this specific question, then it'd say for you to keep your spells.
And Brock's quote seems to be following the same logic as that FAQ, "(it is assumed this occurs during whatever preparations you make while leveling up)".
well, that makes no sense, as once you dismiss the old familiar it is no longer a familiar, but hey, the ruling benefits me, so im not about to complain; thanks guys. this means I get to pick out 2 new spells of each spell level, awesome.
well, that makes no sense, as once you dismiss the old familiar it is no longer a familiar, but hey, the ruling benefits me, so im not about to complain; thanks guys. this means I get to pick out 2 new spells of each spell level, awesome.
Basically, part of gaining the improved familiar feat includes an intermediary step, where you transition your spells from the old regular familiar to the new improved familiar.
The game basically hand-waves some processes like gaining levels, as you doing unmentioned things from level to level to reach the next level. Like, your wizard just automagically adds new spells to his spell book with every level. The explanation for him doing this is because he spends unmentioned time researching those new spells from level to level. Or another example is learning a language with linguistics. The intention is that you were studying that language in your downtime, even if it never got mentioned in the game.
And Improved Familiars use a similar logic. Before you gained the improved familiar feat, you were already going through unmentioned processes to make that work.
I would say that you get the same spells you already have.
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Familiar Teaching Familiar: A witch's familiar can learn spells from another witch's familiar. To accomplish this, the familiars must spend one hour per level of the spell being taught in communion with one another. At the end of this time, the witch whose familiar is learning a spell must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell level). If the check succeeds, the familiar has learned the spell and the witch may utilize it the next time she prepares spells. If the check fails, the familiar has failed to learn the spell and cannot try to learn that spell again until the witch has gained another rank in Spellcraft. Most witches require a spell of equal or greater level in return for this service. If a familiar belongs to a witch that has died, it only retains its knowledge of spells for 24 hours, during which time it is possible to coerce or bribe the familiar into teaching its spells to another, subject to GM discretion.
The old familiar will retain its knowlege of the spells for 24 hours, so it will possible for the new familiar to learn a few levels of spells.
But in my Kingmaker campaign I have used an alternate method that is totally rule compliant.
In the area governed by the PCs there is a old, non adventuring, witch with a decent level and good spellcraft. She agreed to work as a "back up spellbook" for the PC witch. The player witch did teach all of its spells to the NPC witch at no cost. In the event of the death of the PC witch familiar the NPC witch familiar would teach back all the spell he learned from the PC familiar.
For the NPC it is a good bargain. She get the protection of the more powerful PC witch and all the spells that PC witch learn for free. For the PC is a good insurance and can be used to change familiar if needed.
In a campaign where the players move around a witch cohort can serve in the same fashion.
The only problem is that is open to abuses. Store the spell in the NPC familiar, dismiss your familiar, calla new familiar and select new spells. For 500 gp/witch level you have learned 2 new spells of each level you are able to cast. At high level it can cost less than learning the new spells from scrolls.
To add a new nightmare to witches: what happen if a witch is killed and stay dead for more than 24 hours? The familiar revert to a normal animal of its type and loose all the spells?
That should have been addressed in the rules.
When the rules are unclear, rule such that the player can continue to play their chosen character without the player getting an undue advantage, provided said ruling is not counter to RAW. In this case, the witch should not be punished for using a feat to improve their familiar; neither should they get an advantage of additional spells.
Familiar Teaching Familiar: A witch's familiar can learn spells from another witch's familiar. To accomplish this, the familiars must spend one hour per level of the spell being taught in communion with one another. At the end of this time, the witch whose familiar is learning a spell must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell level). If the check succeeds, the familiar has learned the spell and the witch may utilize it the next time she prepares spells. If the check fails, the familiar has failed to learn the spell and cannot try to learn that spell again until the witch has gained another rank in Spellcraft. Most witches require a spell of equal or greater level in return for this service. If a familiar belongs to a witch that has died, it only retains its knowledge of spells for 24 hours, during which time it is possible to coerce or bribe the familiar into teaching its spells to another, subject to GM discretion.The old familiar will retain its knowlege of the spells for 24 hours, so it will possible for the new familiar to learn a few levels of spells.
Yep. You can at best transfer 24 spell levels of spells.
Much better to get a coven going and everyone back up everyone else.
With leadership, you can get a lot of low level spells from your minions.
Lastly, if you want to play the game, the magic levels are 9th, and 11th and up.
/cevah