Hello. Two quick questions...
I've always been fuzzy on the resolution of the "when does a check end?" discussion that occurred years ago - specifically when it comes to whether two of the same boon type (e.g., spells) can be played on the same check.
In the case of Improvised Monster, one of the powers reads:
When you defeat a non-villain monster and would banish it, reveal this card to add the monster to your hand instead.
My question: If I defeat a monster with a weapon, can I then use Improvised Monster (also a weapon) to add that monster to my hand? Or does that count as using two weapons on the same "check"?
(BTW, if this works, this is a nice barbarian combo: kill a monster with a weapon, use IM to put the monster into my hand, then bury that monster during a later combat check for a d10 combat bonus. Then *that* defeated monster goes into my hand with IM, etc. Rinse and repeat.)
My second question is about Mavaro from Occult Adventures 2, which works differently from the MM Mavaro. He has the powers:
Play with the top card of your deck faceup. You gain all skills that could be used to acquire that card equal to your Knowledge skill.
You may discard a card to search your deck for a card and set it aside; shuffle your deck, then put that card on top.
The question, which is about timing: When am I allowed to use the second power? If I encounter a dexterity-based barrier, for instance, can I quickly discard a card and search for a "to acquire - dexterity" card to place on top of my deck to help me defeat the barrier? Or would I have needed to do that before I explored?
Thanks in advance for the help...
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Question 1: Yes. Powers that are triggered by things happening can be used even if they break the limit of "one card of each type per step".
If a power says it may be used when something happens, you may use it every time that happens. Otherwise, a specific card’s power may only be used once per check or step.
Question 2: This has to do with "affecting the situation"
RULES: AFFECTING THE SITUATION
In some situations, you are limited to playing cards or using powers that affect or otherwise relate to the current situation. In these cases, the things you do cannot require anyone to do something else for your action to be meaningful—the things you do must directly affect the situation. For example, let’s say that a character is attempting a check using a power that adds 1 to her check for each blessing in her hand, and a second character has a power that allows him to give the first character a card. He could give her a blessing, because that doesn’t require any other action to affect the check. But he could not give her a card that allows her to draw a blessing from the box, because she would have to do something else—in this case, play the card he gave her—to affect the check.
I've not played Mavaro (I think I don't even own that class deck yet). But assuming that is the complete text, then it would seem to me that yes, you could use that power during a check.
To be clear though, I think the order would actually be like this:
You encounter a card and you get to the "attempt the check" step of the encounter. The check is Dexterity 10.
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Attempting a Check
Determine which skill you’re using.
You would pick Dexterity. It doesn't really matter at this point what your Dexterity is, just that you picked it from the list of checks to defeat.
Determine the difficulty.
You figure out what the difficulty is as normal. We'll say it just stays 10.
Play cards and use powers that affect the check (optional).
Now you use Mavaro's power to go find a Dexterity check card. You put it face up.
Assemble your dice.
Now when you go to assemble the dice, his Dexterity skill is equal to what his Knowledge skill is.
Attempt the roll.
You roll the dice and add in you Knowledge modifier to the result.
Take damage if you fail a check to defeat a monster.
It was a barrier, so this doesn't apply.
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But again, I've not played him and I've only looked at what is in the blog. I also haven't given this much thought before now, so maybe I'm missing something.
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+1 to Hawkmoon on both accounts.
Mavaro's second power directly causes him to gain X skills (based on the checks to acquire the card you're searching for). Assuming at least one of those skills will directly change what dice you assemble or other bonuses you'll gain, it's directly relevant.
In Mavaro's case, I still feel like there is a certain vagueness that remains. If you have a weapon that says, towards the end of its power detailing revealing it for combat; "If you have the Arcane skill, add 1d4", can you use Mavaro's power in the 'Play cards and use powers that affect the check (optional).' step to gain the Arcane skill off a spell?
I'd think you can, because it's changing what dice you're rolling (see the example about "a power that adds 1 for each blessing in your hand" in the Affecting the Check rules), but is the weapon always checking that you have the Arcane skill, or only when you reveal it? What if it was an item that said "Discard this to add 1d4 to your combat check. If you have the Arcane skill, add 1d12 instead."? You CERTAINLY can't use Mavaro's power to put an Arcane card on top PRIOR to discarding such an Item, because that wouldn't directly affect the check... but can you use it afterwards, and would that retroactively change the item? I think so, because you haven't reached the 'Assemble your dice' step, but I'm not actually certain.
If the item DOES retroactively change, because you haven't actually assembled your dice yet by the time you've played it, then what about costs? What about the Hell's Vengeance allies that read "Recharge this to X. If you don't have the Arcane or Divine skill, bury this instead."? Or do these follow spell rules, where you're actually 'setting them aside' until after the check is done to determine where they go (Discard, Bury, Recharge)? In that case, those allies generally aren't played, or able to be played, mid-check, but if there was an ally that could with similar wording, how would that work?
As it is, I recognize the rule well enough to assess usual intent and restrictions, but I have sufficient doubts about corner cases, even after well over a year of heavy PACG play, that I feel sorry for newcomers coming face to face with that rule when it comes to characters like Mavaro. This isn't a big issue for the OA2 box, because it doesn't have any particularly problematic boons that care about your skills on the fly, but it is a problem for some boons from other sources.
Thanks. Both answers were what I predicted, but it always pays to be 100% sure.
Personal opinion, slightly off-topic...
You've nicely summarized my own experiences with the "affecting the situation" rules. They generally make sense, but - even after many years and many, many games of PACG - I still get hung up occasionally.
I feel that occasionally there is still tension (and sometimes contradiction) between what the designers intended vs. what the RAW technically allow.
At times, my rules interpretations fall under the general category of "whatever makes the game the most fun" (particularly in corner cases), but I do try to play by the RAW whenever possible. Particularly since I teach the game frequently and want to be accurate.