Yeah, I think that set up works out, I just have to decide the order I want to take them in.
On another thread, I asked about good ways to get claw attacks fairly quickly. Warpriest was not one of the suggested ways. Of those suggestions, the one I liked best was Shifter. I had thought about using one level of Shifter and then maybe Feral Hunter. But I hadn't put too much planning into him since I wanted to finish Tara first.
I want to have Kei use mostly natural attacks. I'll give him a shortbow for when he can't reach the target, of course, but I'd prefer natural weapons for melee.
I know that anything other than teeth and claws wouldn't make that much sense on a fox-like character, but it would be nice to get a couple more natural weapons at some point. At least Gore, Slam, and/or Tail Slap. I freely admit that the others would be too odd.
The Helm of the Mammoth Lord item and the Lesser Fiend Totem Rage Power both give a gore attack, but I don't know of any ways to get the other two attacks.
I think Kei would count as his own ally for the purposes of the Animal Fury blesing granting him claw attacks. There is a significant problem with having multiple natural attacks for Kei in particular. If he tries to full attack with say bite and claws then he loses his slashing grace. Another problem is that Slashing Grace specifies one chosen weapon but I think taking weapon focus multiple times works. Regardless he can only Slashing Grace one weapon at time. If he somehow got Martial
Flexibility than maybe he could change which weapon he wants to dex to damage with on the fly. This would be limiting Kei's potential damage types though because I don't think you dex to damage tail slaps or slams.
The alternative would be to make Kei str based but a -2 to str will hurt (at least he's medium). A 17 turned into 15 would be good enough and opens up power attack. His dex can be an 8 which will turn into 10 and his full plate will cover his ac. This can't be worse than my friend who chose to be a str based Goblin War Priest with a scimitar. At sixth Kei can qualify for Vital Strike or Weapon Specialization but if's using multiple attacks he'll want Vital Strike.
There are some interesting options for an Arsenal Chaplain. He gains Weapon Training at 5th granting him access to Advanced Weapon Training which he can use to grab the Focused Weapon AWT which lets him use War Priest sacred weapon damage which he traded out by taking the archetype. This is kind of silly but it should work. He can later take the Weapon Specialist AWT to apply feats like Weapon Specialization to all of his focus weapons. This activates pretty late but can be applied to a str Kitsune without much problem in the earlier levels. The real problem is well being str based Kitsune, Kei not being zealous or from Molthune.
You wouldn't lose Slashing Grace by full attacking with multiple natural attacks. It would just apply for ONLY the attack you choose to put it on.
There's also the Amulet of Mighty Fists, which applies to all natural weapons and can be given the Agile property. It's a minimum of 6000 gold, so it might be a few levels to get, but so would any dex to damage options.
You wouldn't lose Slashing Grace by full attacking with multiple natural attacks. It would just apply for ONLY the attack you choose to put it on.
Hmm, d20pfsrd links this FAQ but I guess when it says "Attacking with natural weapons beyond the weapon you chose for Slashing Grace also does not work" it just means that does weapons don't get dex to damage. Nice.
There's also the Amulet of Mighty Fists, which applies to all natural weapons and can be given the Agile property. It's a minimum of 6000 gold, so it might be a few levels to get, but so would any dex to damage options.
I didn't know that worked with natural attacks, how about that. Amulets of Mighty Fists can actually be +0 and still grant agile so it'd be 4,000 gp. Is your figure of 6000 gold supposed to be 16000 gp (+1 bonus and Agile = +2 amulet? Or is it +1 = 4000 + Agile adding another 2000?) or am I missing something here? Either way, this opens up plenty of option for Kei.
I've always had a little trouble with pricing magical bonuses. I usually just ask the GM what I pay.
But yeah, I'm almost positive that Agile works with the amulet. He might have to wait a bit, but not much later than any other dex to damage.
Ok, so going on the assumption of Dex-based attack and damage and non-Cha casting, this is the 20 point spread I picked out for Kei.
10 Str, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 14 Int, 14 Wis, 10 Cha.
Ok, so going on the assumption of Dex-based attack and damage and non-Cha casting, this is the 20 point spread I picked out for Kei.
10 Str, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 14 Int, 14 Wis, 10 Cha.
Is this before or after racial mods? They look good any way and Kei can actually benefit from that 16 dex in Mithral Full Plate, one day.
After the mods. I dropped the Cha to boost the Str enough to avoid any penalties. I know there are items that can boost his carrying, but they don't help things like Climb checks.
Apparently there is a Bloodline that can give a Tail Slap. The Sorcerer one takes 9 levels to get there. The Bloodrager only needs one level. I probably won't take it, but it's there as a possible option.
That Feral Champion Warpriest looks pretty good as a main class. The damage of Kei's claw attack will go up every 5th level and can be enhanced as a swift action after level 4. Prepared casters do tend to be hard for me, but I think I can handle it.
Just been told a better way to get Tail Slap if I want - Adaptive Shifter. It comes in at level one and doesn't need to be raging, so it's a more effective choice than Bloodrager if needed.
A dip in shifter wouldn't be too detrimental though I think its best to play War Priest without multiclassing. Even prestige classes will slow down Focus Weapon. With Adaptive Claws, Kei would probably be good not going Feral Champion as he could choose what natural attacks he wants at a given time. He could eventually apply his focus weapon damage to all of his attacks. If you wanted to have several simultaneously, you should be able to target yourself with Animal Fury.
All of his focus weapons would benefit from weapon training if he went Arsenal Chaplain but again, that archetype has its problems. The same affect could be achieved with Weapon Versatility. Instead of using different weapons to deal different types of damage, you could just change your damage type on the fly. This would save you from taking weapon focus several times. You could even go full Feral Champion if you wanted to flavor the Weapon Versatility as different natural attacks instead of just claws.
What's Adaptive Claws?
What's Adaptive Claws?
Sorry I don't really proofread my edits, Adaptive Claws is the shifter ability from shifter. You choose which natural attack you get when you activate it.
Oh right, duh. I read the archetype's description but totally forgot the name of the ability itself. XP
I'm thinking of switching out the Kitsune Magic racial trait since it won't be needed as much. Kei will be doing some casting, but a single point boost to his spells' DC won't be that much. And he doesn't have the Cha for Dancing Lights. Don't really need that spell either.
So the question is which do I want? +2 racial bonus to Bluff and Disguise? Switching human and kitsune shapes as a move action? Or being able to change to a normal looking fox?
I'd take the ability to change into a normal fox because I think its rather funny and you can pretend to be someone's familiar.
Ok, I'll do that. Hey, how funny would it be if he took Familiar Bond and got a fox familiar while being able to turn into one himself?
With the Beastkin trait he could even speak fox. Maybe he was raised by foxes and his "father" found him and took him in, full on Prince of Egypt. It would be pretty funny but far from optimal. It would be best if someone if the party had a fox familiar. A plus two to reflex is pretty cool if you wanted to convince a friend but technically any familiar could grant any of the bonuses with GM approval.
I know. I just thought it would be funny for Kei to turn into a fox that looks exactly the same as his familiar and everyone is looking at them and going 'Which one's Kei again?'
So his racial abilities are done. Now for his regular traits. I don't see many Combat Traits that I like for him.
Well Beastkin is still an option if you can find another fox. A Warpriest of Gozreh can make Knowledge (geography) and (nature) checks untrained with Natural Philosopher. Nature's Mimic gives you Knowledge nature as a class skill. Despite being Wisdom based casters, Warpriest don't get Perception as a class skill. Seeker can fix that. Reactionary is always nice for casters, it lets you buff the barbarian before he charges.
*insert nod here*
My anthropology skills are quite lacking so your nod is lost on me.
Seeker is a pretty good choice. Devotee of the Green might be a better choice than Nature's Mimic though.
I'm going to go with Devotee of the Green. It gives a bonus to 2 skills and I can choose which one is a class skill. Knowledge Nature is a class skill for the Shifter, so I'll go with Knowledge Geography. Although it does restrict the type of armor he'll be able to wear, I do want to take that one level of Adaptive Shifter.
I'll start off with Feral Champion Warpriest, then take Shifter, and continue as Warpriest after that.
Looks good, he'll be able to wear stoneplate but that's rather cumbersome. Lamellar (leather) will probably be enough. Your feats should be straight forward.
Yeah. No shield, since he wouldn't get any bonuses from one when attacking with both claws. A Ring of Deflection will help with that once he can afford one.
With the bonus feats every third level of Warpriest, he should have room for at least one Improved Natural Attack somewhere along the line to boost Bite.
The armor special ability Wild should work with Fox Shape, right? It says 'when using a wild shape' like the Druid class feature. But both Fox Shape and Wild Shape function as the Beast Shape spell so it should apply. Am I wrong in this?
This is an interesting problem. It says you retain your armor bonus while in a "Wild Shape," not "while using wild shape or Wild Shaping" which would be the RAW nail in the coffin but I think we have a little wiggle room. A "Wild Shape" is never truly defined, it only says it functions as Beast Shape "except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back." So one could say that it isn't the same because of the exception but it later says that it functions as Beast Shape II without the "except as noted here" tagged on. Which could imply that superior Beast Shaping lasts less time but allows the use of the Wild armor special ability. Since a "Wild Shape" is technically undefined, the question is "Does Wild work with Beast Shape or only Wild Shape. A fox with +9 ac is going to be hard to hit so there are balance issues with this case of hand-wavium.
I believe it is best to abandon conjecture and ply some google-fu. My weak searching, which included filters and search operators, turned up nothing though I'm sure you've looked harder. Wild should probably work but there are some interesting rules alternatives. to have Wild on armor, you need a total of +4 armor. While beast shaping you retain your magic bonuses, I think, so you could in theory have a +4 padded armor for use when you Wild Shape instead of a +1 Wild Studded Leather. This would be better if it works unless you have better armor like Full Plate. Polymorphed gear gives magic effects but not armor so the +4 might not translate, its a mess. Your fox should be fine nonetheless. The cleanest option would be mage armor.
The forums are finally working again. I guess I'll have to ask the GM what he thinks about it.
I've been busy, so I haven't gone through all of the feats yet, but I'm getting there.
Ok, so most of the Combat Feats I like for Kei require 6 BAB. He doesn't get that until level 7 for his Warpriest bonus feat since he can use his level as his BAB. He gets it for real at level 9.
I'll have to wait until level 5 to take Improved Natural Attack since it needs 4 BAB. It's not a Combat Feat so he can't take it as his bonus feat.
Here are the feats I like:
Blood Feast: After damaging a living foe with a Bite attack, +1 morale Atk and Dam with Bite until the end of your next turn.
Dodge: +1 dodge to AC.
Armor Focus: +1 Armor AC
Improved Natural Attack: Increase one natural weapon’s damage by one size. Can be taken multiple times for different natural weapons. Needs BAB 4.
Lunge: Can increase your melee range by 5 feet for the rest of your turn by taking -2 AC until the start of your next turn. Must be done before any attacks are made. Need BAB 6.
Monkey Lunge: Standard action, can use Lunge without AC penalty. Needs Lunge and Acrobatics one rank.
Rending Claws: If both claw attacks hit, do 1d6 damage, not multiplied on crit. Needs 13 Str, BAB 6.
Toughness: +3 HP, +1 HP per level after LV3.
Vital Strike: For single attack at highest BAB, can roll base damage a second time and add it to total damage. Not multiplied on crit. Needs BAB 6.
Hammer the Gap: When full attacking, each consecutive hit against the same foe deals extra damage equal to the number of previous consecutive hits. Multiplies on crit. Need BAB 6.
Unhindering Shield: Keep buckler’s AC bonus even if using that hand to cast spell or attacking. Treating as always having that hand free. Need Shield Focus and BAB 6 or Fighter level 4.
Hammer the Gap looks especially effective for Kei with his full attacks. Except you don't seem to have TWF on your list. With some claws I think Kei qualifies for Multiattack which would be better. I would probably ignore or delay armor focus and shield focus. It wouldn't be too bad if you took Dodge and Armor Focus at the same time since they add to flat and touch keeping his ACs well rounded. I think Unhindering Shield would still apply a penalty to attack which might not be worth the feats. It looks like Kei has few feats to play with so some AC feats might be worth it. Of course, if Kei is dex based then Weapon Finesse would be a must and his dex should cover his AC with some medium armor.
I don't think Multiattack is needed since Claws, Bite, and Gore are all Primary attacks. The only one he'll have that's a Secondary attack is the Tail Slap. If he were also fighting with a weapon, it would be helpful but he isn't going to.
And Unhindering Shield says your hand is treated as free.
I always thought that all attacks after your first natural weapon were secondary but I've never played a natural weapon build before so I'm not sure. It sounds like since all your attacks are primary so Kei is fine.
As for Unhindering Shield, bucklers were always free hands. The feat allows you to keep to the AC bonus but makes no mention of removing the attack penalty.
Any natural weapon that's designated a Primary Attack is always made at full BAB unless you also use a manufactured weapon like a sword. This is to make up for not getting extra attacks from a higher BAB.
Natural attacks don't get bonus attacks with high BAB? That's rough. I don't know if you settled on Feral Champion but someone on Reddit told me that Feral Champions can still take weapon focus to increase the damage of other weapons so you wouldn't need improved natural attack after all.
On a side not, I've reread some of the older posts in this thread to refresh my memory and I don't know how you understood a word I said as I seem to skip words quite often. I'll try to get on that as I'm supposed to be giving advice, not helping you practice code-breaking and linguistics. You are also almost three months into making these characters which I'm sure your readers and fellow players will appreciate.
Nope. That's why I was so set on getting Kei a lot of them.
Weapon Focus gives a +1 to the attack roll, not the damage. Improved Natural Attack increase the damage die.
You skipped words? I didn't even notice.
I like making characters. After this, I'm going back to Captain Cold and see if I can get his feats right.
As a Warpriest, Kei can increase the damage of all weapons he takes Weapon Focus with per Focus Weapon.
Oh right.
Ok. So assuming that a Feral Champion can still use Weapon Focus to give Sacred Weapon damage to multiple weapons, here is the feat path I'm looking at.
1: Fox Shape (Racial bonus)
1: Weapon Focus Claws (Class bonus)
1: Weapon Finesse
3: Armor Focus: +1 Armor AC
4: Dodge: +1 dodge to AC. (Class bonus)
5: Weapon Focus Bite
7: Blood Feast: After damaging a living foe with a Bite attack, +1 morale Atk and Dam with Bite until the end of your next turn.
7: Hammer the Gap: When full attacking, each consecutive hit against the same foe deals extra damage equal to the number of previous consecutive hits. Multiplies on crit. (Class bonus)
9: Lunge: Can increase your melee range by 5 feet for the rest of your turn by taking -2 AC until the start of your next turn. Must be done before any attacks are made.
10: Monkey Lunge: Standard action, can use Lunge without AC penalty. (Class bonus)
11: Weapon Focus Tail Slap
If it turns out that a Feral Champion can't use Weapon Focus the same way a base Warpriest can, I'll just switch the later two for Improved Natural Attack.
Your feat choices are good, though you're missing Piranha Strike but I'm sure you have your reasons. Its not too much damage anyways. Toughness may be better than Armor Focus, really depends on his AC with diminishing returns and that jazz.
As nice as weapon focus claws is, Kei already treats his claws as one of his scared weapons so he could actually take weapon focus bite at first level instead of 5th, increasing his bite damage right away.
That's true. Which means I can take Toughness without having to replace Armor Focus. I can take it at level 3 and move Armor Focus to 5.
Piranha Strike is basically a Dex-based Power Attack, but it doesn't seem to be able to be used as Power Attack to qualify for feats.
I'm having a little trouble picking out Kei's Reactive Forms. He gets two of them and I like 3.
If I take Stretching Form, he'll get 5 feet of reach for his natural weapons for one turn. It's an immediate action so he won't be able to use any swift actions that turn, but it would mean I don't have to take Lunge or Monkey Lunge. Unless they would stack with each other.
Giant Form would increase the base damage of his attacks, though he'll lose some Dex so it might not be worth it.
Sensory Form will give him Low-Light Vision and Scent.
The Rajah veilweaving/martial discipline class from Dreamscarred Press is a pretty good choice for nobles and rulers. With abilities like Royal Mandate, House of Servants, Heraldry, Regality, and others. It is both martial and taps into the idea of a mystical royalty.
Thanks, but I'm trying to avoid third-party stuff for this.
I'm having a little trouble picking out Kei's Reactive Forms. He gets two of them and I like 3.
If I take Stretching Form, he'll get 5 feet of reach for his natural weapons for one turn. It's an immediate action so he won't be able to use any swift actions that turn, but it would mean I don't have to take Lunge or Monkey Lunge. Unless they would stack with each other.
Giant Form would increase the base damage of his attacks, though he'll lose some Dex so it might not be worth it.
Sensory Form will give him Low-Light Vision and Scent.
It looks like Lunge and Stretching Form will stack though the effectiveness of this options is questionable as he has limited uses. It should be good for those situations where extra reach goes a long way.
Giant Form should grant reach making it more than a damage die increase. Enlarge Person is usually +0 attk +1 dmg but you'd get -2 attk and -1 dmg both with larger damage die. It could be worth it but its not exactly smite. I'd activate it only if I was confident that I could still consistently hit.
Kei, being Kitsune, already has low-light Vision and I don't think scent is as beneficial as the other forms. Your GM might allow Kei to upgrade to darkvision or increased low-light Range but its not too great.
If Spiked Form uses your Warpriest damage then that would be a must but it might just be d4s. Was flying too much or did you like the other forms better?
The Sky Hunter form needs him to be a level 6 Shifter.
I completely forget that Kistunes get Low-Light Vision. I've gotten so used to playing my halfling that I forget some races come with it.
The 6th level requirement looked like its own shifter form, oops.
Ok, I'm not entirely convinced that the Feral Champion Warpriest can use Weapon Focus to give a weapon Sacred Weapon damage. Just to be on the safe side, I'm going to plan out 2 feat paths - one where it does and one where it doesn't.
The first is the same as previously posted, just replacing Weapon Focus Claws with Weapon Focus Bite, moving Armor Focus to level 5 and putting Toughness at level 3.
The second feat path keeps Weapon Focus Claws as it will be the one with the higher damage and so I'll want it to be able to hit more. Armor Focus will stay at level 3 with Improved Natural Weapon Bite at level 5. The level 11 Weapon Focus Tail Slap will be switched with Improved Natural Attack Tail Slap.