So I'm looking (first time ever) at the Agathiel Vigilante archetype, and am curious about the bolded bit here:
At 1st level, an agathiel’s vigilante identity must invoke the appearance and behavior of a single Small or Medium creature of the animal type. The vigilante can attempt to appear to be a normal member of this animal type, but doing so imposes a –10 penalty on his Disguise check. The bonus provided by seamless guise still applies to the vigilante’s attempts to appear to be an ordinary animal. Once the vigilante’s animal form is selected, it cannot be changed.Beginning at 4th level, when an agathiel assumes his vigilante identity, he physically transforms into an animal, though he always retains unusual traits that set him apart from ordinary animals, as if using beast shape I, except the vigilante gains no ability adjustments and can select only a single animal ability from those listed in the spell’s description. His social identity remains his true form, and unlike with beast shape I, an agathiel can remain in his animal form indefinitely. The agathiel’s vigilante identity is considered a polymorph effect, and while in his vigilante identity, the agathiel is immune to other polymorph effects.
Unlike with normal polymorph effects, the agathiel’s equipment does not meld into his form, and instead changes shape to fit his animal form and provides the same function, though any equipment requiring hands cannot be used until he returns to his social identity.
At 8th level, when assuming his vigilante identity, the vigilante can select two abilities provided by beast shape I, or select a single ability provided by beast shape II. At 12th level, he can instead select two abilities provided by beast shape II, or a single ability provided by beast shape III. At 16th level, he can instead select three abilities provided by beast shape III, or a single ability provided by beast shape IV.
This ability alters dual identity and replaces the vigilante talents gained at 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th levels.
This states that wile your equipment remains in tact, you can't use equipment that requires hands. I'm assuming this statement is in there because most animals don't have hands, so they didn't want the fact that equipment remains and 'provides the same function' to say the tiger can still wield a greataxe - but what about animals that DO have hands? The Ekujae elves have Agathiel's among them, and I'd think primates are rather common in the Mwangi Expanse. Can an Agathiel that transforms into a primate still wield weapons or manipulate objects with their hands?
"Cannot be used" is pretty clear, if difficult to visualize, particularly since you could just drop the weapon before changing shape and get around it.
It does NOT say that items requiring hands meld into the form, so it's not a matter of being able to 'drop the weapon before changing shape and get around it.' The rule states that equipment requiring hands cannot be used until he returns to his social identity.
The bolded part above is written as an exception to the 'provides the same function' part, not to the 'does not meld' part.
I understand the text. As worded, the agathiel's equipment changes into a form suited to the animal but is unusable by the agathiel if it requires hands. What a halberd would turn into to make it "suitable but unusable" for a gorilla is anybody's guess.
A question: If an agathiel changes shape into a gorilla and then happens upon a halberd, could they use it? If so, that's where the "drop it first" suggestion comes into play. A silly workaround for a badly-worded ability.
Not looking for 'silly workarounds', as they don't avoid table variation.
If table variation is all you're concerned about, apply the text as written--you can't use items that require hands while in agathiel-gorilla form.
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"any equipment requiring hands cannot be used until he returns to his social identity"
I think this line makes it clear that regardless of what animal you choose to become, you can't use any equipment that require the use of your hands until you return to your social identity.
It may not be logical, but it is the restriction of this archetype.
Pathfinder is not a real-life simulator. Trying to apply logic to game mechanics does not work.
Otherwise, people can start using real-life science to proof that "logcially" you can't magically turn into an animal cos, the physics, chemistry...etc don't add up.
I think it's clear it was not meant to be a restriction on the archetype, but a clarifier of a different interaction. beast shape into an ape, and you can wield a weapon - that is pretty well accepted. The only confusion is that because this wild shape is different from normal polymorphing, and they included the change where armor and such reshapes to fit the new form and 'provides the same function', they felt the need to clarify that it doesn't allow otherwise incapable beasts from using some of that equipment.
Sadly, it's a soft cover, so no 'fix' will be found - so I was hoping for clarification here instead.