enlarge + shillelagh + ascetic form substituting monk unarmed damage for Quarterstaff


Advice


Imagine I take a single level in goliath druid (or other) with growth domain ability and I am nabbing shillelagh as first level spell.

I go on and switch to sacred fist or monk.

At 5th level monk my unarmed is 1D8, I enlarge so my bare hands do 2D6, with ascetic form tats now the base damage of my quarterstaff, now I use shillelagh on the quarterstaff tp flurry with it at 4D6, 4D8 if I get monk robes.

Is that correct or it doesn't work that way?

Dark Archive

Nope. The replace ability overrides shillelagh.

It's either shillelagh + enlarge staff damage OR large size unarmed damage.

The bit about counting as magic still works


First, it is entirely unclear if ascetic style increases base damage. The FAQ that confirmed this (Feral Combat Training) was changed so it is unlikely that it is meant to actually work. Ascetic Style uses the same language as FCT.

If Ascetic Style does actually increase base damage for weapons then your base damage is 1d10. From this base damage you are allowed 1 virtual size increase (shillelagh) and 1 actual size increase (enlarge person). 1d10 becomes 2d8 with enlarge person, and 2d8 becomes 4d8 with shillelagh.


thorin001 wrote:
First, it is entirely unclear if ascetic style increases base damage. The FAQ that confirmed this (Feral Combat Training) was changed so it is unlikely that it is meant to actually work. Ascetic Style uses the same language as FCT.

The FAQ for FCT was removed because the relevant sentence got dropped from the FCT wording in an erratum. The original ruling should still be considered valid.

The FAQ said "The feat says you can apply "effects that augment an unarmed strike," and the monk's increased unarmed damage counts as such."

That said, to expand on what Name Violation wrote, you don't actually increase the weapon's damage. The ability says "The damage dealt by a monk’s unarmed strike is determined by the unarmed damage column". That's all that Ascetic Style does in regards top this ability - you can use the damage as determined by the table instead of what you'd normally do.
When you use the Monk's unarmed damage, your actual weapon doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you're wielding a tiny Kyoketsu shoge with 1d2 damage or a a huge kama for 2d6, a large Shillelagh'ed large quarterstaff (via Titan Mauler) with 3d6 damage, or even a large Impact butchering axe (with Titan Mauler and with Weapon Modification: Versatile Design (Monk)) for 6d6, - they all do for 1d8 damage for a 5th level Monk (when applying that class feature via Ascetic Style).


Ok that blows but its settled at least.


Derklord wrote:
thorin001 wrote:
First, it is entirely unclear if ascetic style increases base damage. The FAQ that confirmed this (Feral Combat Training) was changed so it is unlikely that it is meant to actually work. Ascetic Style uses the same language as FCT.

The FAQ for FCT was removed because the relevant sentence got dropped from the FCT wording in an erratum. The original ruling should still be considered valid.

The FAQ said "The feat says you can apply "effects that augment an unarmed strike," and the monk's increased unarmed damage counts as such."

That said, to expand on what Name Violation wrote, you don't actually increase the weapon's damage. The ability says "The damage dealt by a monk’s unarmed strike is determined by the unarmed damage column". That's all that Ascetic Style does in regards top this ability - you can use the damage as determined by the table instead of what you'd normally do.
When you use the Monk's unarmed damage, your actual weapon doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you're wielding a tiny Kyoketsu shoge with 1d2 damage or a a huge kama for 2d6, a large Shillelagh'ed large quarterstaff (via Titan Mauler) with 3d6 damage, or even a large Impact butchering axe (with Titan Mauler and with Weapon Modification: Versatile Design (Monk)) for 6d6, - they all do for 1d8 damage for a 5th level Monk (when applying that class feature via Ascetic Style).

That is the problem, the FAQ no longer says what you want it to say. And they changed FCT for the express purpose of reversing the ruling that allowed you to make your natural weapon equal to your monk damage.


thorin001 wrote:
That is the problem, the FAQ no longer says what you want it to say.

Doesn't matter. The PDT said that the Monk's US damage does count as an effect that improves unarmed strikes. They never changed or retracted that statement. They removed the FAQ because the question was no longer valid, but that doesn't actually change their position on the topic.

We will never see an FAQ specific to Ascetic Style, so what do you want to base your ruling on? The removed FAQ is still by far the most official thing we have on the topic. In addition, the author said that it works.

thorin001 wrote:
And they changed FCT for the express purpose of reversing the ruling that allowed you to make your natural weapon equal to your monk damage.

If the only way the PDT saw to make FCT stop working with the Monk's US damage was to erratum the offending sentence away, than that's further proof that said sentence does include the Monk's US damage. If it didn't, they could have just posted a different FAQ.


Derklord wrote:
thorin001 wrote:
That is the problem, the FAQ no longer says what you want it to say.

Doesn't matter. The PDT said that the Monk's US damage does count as an effect that improves unarmed strikes. They never changed or retracted that statement. They removed the FAQ because the question was no longer valid, but that doesn't actually change their position on the topic.

We will never see an FAQ specific to Ascetic Style, so what do you want to base your ruling on? The removed FAQ is still by far the most official thing we have on the topic. In addition, the author said that it works.

thorin001 wrote:
And they changed FCT for the express purpose of reversing the ruling that allowed you to make your natural weapon equal to your monk damage.
If the only way the PDT saw to make FCT stop working with the Monk's US damage was to erratum the offending sentence away, than that's further proof that said sentence does include the Monk's US damage. If it didn't, they could have just posted a different FAQ.

The fact that the language changed is not proof that the old version is what is still in effect.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / enlarge + shillelagh + ascetic form substituting monk unarmed damage for Quarterstaff All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice