Skeld
|
Because who can make this stuff up?
Do you remember, or were you around when yellowdingo inhabited these boards?
-Skeld
| Elemental95 |
I'll level with you. For a while there, I thought you were a troll. I thought you were a troll, and I even thought I'd been baited, goaded into responding. But more than that, you impressed me. I found it a joy to watch you work.
But now, I don't think you're a troll.
Elemental95 wrote:have and I don't like it. it smacks too much of being a comic book superhero: the powers are "At a whim" and as far as I have read don't have limits to their use, unless they are using "BURN". thus an aether kineticist 4th level can use 400lbs of strength all day (for a round with burn: 4,000 lbs), and a 9th could fly all day (Jean Grey, eat your heart out). Honestly, I hope I am wrong about that.Because who can make this stuff up?
uhm, a sweet roll? a sweetroll? a sweet troll?
Nope, I may be a tad obscure in my expression,
but I genuinely play and greatly desire
a legitimate revision of 2nd ed AD&D psionics
via mechanics presented in the occultist class.
| Elemental95 |
There is a chance for that to happen with PF2.
I like that the occultist has to make tough choices ahead of time, but isn't static like a wizard. I.e. selecting an implement to invest focus into.
I can imagine implements being "Trance" states, more or less.
I like how resonant powers scale with the investment of focus.
I like how resonant and base powers can represent sustaining a power within the hidden nooks of consciousness (like when you "autopilot" driving a car), a kind of daily preparation of "Contingent" and or "Continual" powers.
For example, the spell "Find traps"... the only time you as an honest player with a legit GM know when to cast it is after its too late. Spells like "Find traps" may as well be correctly relabeled as "Identify cheating player who read their own copy of the adventure".
I like how focus powers and expending mental focus works. it is not spell casting exactly, and being different from: Spells known: 0,1,2,3,4 spells per day: 0,1,2,3,4 is what I care about greatly.
As a player, I get to make the choices. I can choose how much to spend and when, as well as on what and describe how I intend to use it. As I perceive it pure 9th level spellcasters are heinously flawed and mechanically unworkable.
Points at "Find traps".
last night I read through d20 pfsrd regarding the wizard/sorcerer spell list. I was expecting to find an arsenal of combat spells at every level and in every school of magic (with minor differences in their workings) and a slew of "AYCD-ICDB" (anything you can do, I can do better) spells...
you know, like what was offered in the old 2nd ed D&D "spell compendium" book set. what did I find? did I find the wizard to be vastly OP with a diverse arsenal of dhunam ahkeem puppet "IKEELLYEW"? no, not-so-much.
what I find (in my opinion) is that the spellcasters are grossly static and lack adaptability. try an experiment, a thought experiment, if you will: I imagined trying a sorcerer with the psychic bloodline. I was looking to build something based around force damage and telekinetic manipulation spells: mage hand, open close, mage armor, shield, magic missile, unseen servant, floating disk, a sort of "tread air" spell, etc (sort of - there wasn't much that fit my vision of my desired character of "a-humble-dude-who-is-secretly-an-explosively-violent-telekinetic-poltergie st!" huff-huff-huff,Phew!)
and then I went back in "memory lane" and imagined the character replacing my default rogue in many of the adventures I participated in: there were a couple of scenarios were in my character drowned, got buried by a mold, ran out spells per day, My theme selected spells were not the ones the adventure called for (demanding fire-fire-and-mo-fire-egads-kill-it-kill-it-I-say-with-fire!), In one or more encounters a foe was immune to "magic missile" and that left me wondering if other force based damage spells would work, at all. I realized very quickly how few realistic options and room for creativity sorcerers DON'T HAVE.
of course, having like three class skills didn't help the parties "not at all" either! the character was extra baggage cramping the other player's styles. "Climb this earth berm" nope can't. "swim out of the quicksand" Nope, blup-blup-blup-blorp. "jump down from a 10foot high ledge" Owie, I just lost 99% of my hit points...
it really, well and truly, sucked.
ALL CHARACTERS need skills. NO ONE should be BAGGAGE. especially not some one who bears the burden of the genie in Disney's Aladdin, "INFINITE COSMIC POWER ... itty-bitty-gnome"...
In a few scenarios the character was LITERALLY carried in a back pack. Wrong, just freakin' wrong. Competence is the hall mark of heroes. needing to be rescued all the time, is not.
| Elemental95 |
worse still is the concept that the adventuring party working together is prepared for anything... No, it is not.
That time I drowned in quicksand? yeah, none of the characters at that table had a single rank in SURVIVAL.
I don't want characters to be prepared for everything; but there are times when what an adventure demands... NO ONE has.
take them guardian statues that can only be hurt by adamantium, and will break any other material weapon used against them...
How about an adventure that has zombies, and skeletons: do you have a blunt weapon? do you have a slashing weapon?
now add a nasty fey (like a red cap) "ya need cold iron!"
then add a were-beastie, "Ya need Silver!"
... you got all of those in each different flavor? what was your carrying capacity again? and you have a Tent?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha, NO!
| Elemental95 |
The psionicist straddled a fence in 2nd ed AD&D, especially after "Player's options: skills and powers". You had close to rogue armor, weapon proffs and shield if you wanted. You had some skills that served the party and you weren't baggage. You weren't a FRONT LINE fighter, a skill monkey, a dedicated caster, but nor were you locked into a support role and forced to join the Bardic college of tra-la-la "Beat'n'Blow".
You had some skill, and some gear, and a little bit of power, and you had to be VERY careful with how and when you used it.
if my supposed "dungeon delving historical relic/artifact hunting Occultist" is going to adventure...
I take a race with FEY THOUGHTS and use my background TRAITS to gain access to:
acrobatics, climb, stealth, swim...
oh you know, just the S&^$^ any dungeon/ruin diver *MUST* have to not be baggage.
I strip down to light armor, light shield, a light weapon, because I'm more rogue now than fighter, and more rogue now than spell caster.
thing is, I just wasted my customization options, on fixing my favorite class' idiotic skill list. I don't really get to play a character I want to play, but at least I am not worthless BAGGAGE!
Please PF 2nd ed developers Keep these things in mind when you are developing the skill lists that these "ADVENTURING HEROES" are going to have.
| Elemental95 |
ahh, point builds...
the gnome sorcerer with a 5 strength and a 20 charisma...
the elf rogue with 18 dex, and 16 int...
the nagaji fighter with a 5 int, 8 wisdom, and 7 charisma, but 20 strength an stuff...
And the only role player at the table? a lawful neutral cleric of asmodeus...
If the players were going to *ROLE PLAY" their characters, how would their first meeting play out?
The Nagaji snatches up the gnome sorc and starts cooing, "tell me about the rabbits george"... then remembers that he's kinda hungry... Snakes like to EAT BUNNIES...
the elf rogue is holding his nose and hoping he doesn't have to run, or carry anything...
and the priest? he's negotiating a "protection contract" for the gnome in exchange for a little something the gnome doesn't really need.... (evil grin)
Seriously, the demands of adventuring coupled with point buy, force players to specialize and to fill roles: theivery, face, healer, survivalist, lore master...
but, the weight of equipment, such as the "pre-loaded" class packs, and weapons, and armor, tend to require a bit of strength, and one forced march... will exhaust every single character who doesn't have a decent constitution and or the endurance feat -not to mention saving throw boosting feats- but casters need to concentrate, the short bow rogue needs point blank shot followed by precise shot, and the fighter is bent on earning a feat chain by 9th level, and well...
that's not going to happen.
| Elemental95 |
So how do I asign my "Rogultist's" attributes?
14 Str, 14 Dex, 13 Con, 14*Int, 14 Wis, 10 Cha
*throw my racial +2 on int
Now I can wear Parade armor that looks like a Black Jacket of Dumma.
Now I can carry a light wooden shield, a short sword, a short bow and arrows, thief tools and then an adventuring pack. I have to chuck out some stuff to stay light and have room for phat lewtz)
Skill ranks invested in:
Acrobatics (need to balance, need to jump)
Climb (cause there are times when the fighter is holding the monsters off and we need everyone to escape through a hole above us)
disable device (because, "dungeon is full of trap", and I might need to get in somewhere we are not supposed to.)
perception (duh, cause "dungeon is full of trap" and ambush predators, and hidden stuff)
Stealth (duh, cause "dungeon if full of trap", and monsturz)
Swim (duh, cause "drowning is no fun")
an one more with my favored class bonus?
Survival, (because dying cause you didn't respect the outdoors is just STUPID)
my feats?
skill focus: perception, (I am a half elf with a varisian heritage and an occultist. therefore I need all the help I can get in spotting traps before I die a horrible grissly death)
My first level feat?...
Extra focus points. (*I know. why didn't I take X,Y,Z?)
My implements? I specialize in divination, all of my mental focus is in my harrow deck.
I hope I live to see third level so I can get that Danger sense focus power.
I'm not as good at being a rogue as a pure unchained rogue, I am not a front line fighter, I am not a spell caster... but I am not luggage and I can hold my own.
The terrible flaw of being a divination specialist?
"knowing stuff is utterly useless, if you are powerless to do anything about it." I am not powerless, I am forewarned.