Initiative Count and Interaction with Ready and Delay actions FAQ Request


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

12 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

There is another discussion on this topic located here.

I am requesting a FAQ on this question.

If there is a tie on Initiative Count caused by a creature taking a Ready or Delay action, how should this tie be handled?


Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Don't the rules say the tie is broken by the individual with the higher initiative modifier or, failing that, a new initiative roll to break the tie between them?

Liberty's Edge

I believe the action taken determined where a creature goes in the initiative order.

The Concordance

Ravingdork wrote:
Don't the rules say the tie is broken by the individual with the higher initiative modifier or, failing that, a new initiative roll to break the tie between them?

Correct.

Liberty's Edge

ShieldLawrence wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Don't the rules say the tie is broken by the individual with the higher initiative modifier or, failing that, a new initiative roll to break the tie between them?
Correct.

Ah, but I disagree!! Thus the desire for a FAQ. :)

The Concordance

Gary Bush wrote:
ShieldLawrence wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Don't the rules say the tie is broken by the individual with the higher initiative modifier or, failing that, a new initiative roll to break the tie between them?
Correct.
Ah, but I disagree!! Thus the desire for a FAQ. :)

The rules are clear. You desire it to be run differently than the rules state.

Initiative p.238 wrote:
If two or more combatants have the same initiative count, the order in which they act is determined by their total initiative modifiers (the character with the highest modifier acts first). If there is still a tie, the tied characters should each roll a d20, and whoever rolls highest goes first. This final method of determining which character’s initiative order is earlier is often referred to as “rolling off.”

Liberty's Edge

No they are not.

We don't agree.

I am hopeful for clarification from a "higher authority".

If I am wrong in my reading I will accept that but only if it comes from an official source.


Gary Bush wrote:

No they are not.

We don't agree.

I am hopeful for clarification from a "higher authority".

If I am wrong in my reading I will accept that but only if it comes from an official source.

Delay says "After any creature takes its turn in the initiative order, you can

come out of delay and take your turn. This changes your initiative
count to the current initiative count for the remainder of the
combat." on page 249.

The delaying character acts immediately after another. No roll off is required. Their position is set. It would be a roll off if two creatures chose to act after the same character.

The Concordance

Velkyn wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:

No they are not.

We don't agree.

I am hopeful for clarification from a "higher authority".

If I am wrong in my reading I will accept that but only if it comes from an official source.

Delay says "After any creature takes its turn in the initiative order, you can

come out of delay and take your turn. This changes your initiative
count to the current initiative count for the remainder of the
combat." on page 249.

The delaying character acts immediately after another. No roll off is required. Their position is set. It would be a roll off if two creatures chose to act after the same character.

Your count is changed to the current count. Multiple characters on the current count must roll off. There is no defined set position as you are suggesting.

You take your turn after them and then use the rules for Initiative to determine the rest.


ShieldLawrence wrote:
Velkyn wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:

No they are not.

We don't agree.

I am hopeful for clarification from a "higher authority".

If I am wrong in my reading I will accept that but only if it comes from an official source.

Delay says "After any creature takes its turn in the initiative order, you can

come out of delay and take your turn. This changes your initiative
count to the current initiative count for the remainder of the
combat." on page 249.

The delaying character acts immediately after another. No roll off is required. Their position is set. It would be a roll off if two creatures chose to act after the same character.

Your count is changed to the current count. Multiple characters on the current count must roll off. There is no defined set position as you are suggesting.

You take your turn after them and then use the rules for Initiative to determine the rest.

It states you come out of delay and take your turn. Seems pretty clear it is immediately to me. The character is already primed for action. They get dropped into order directly after the creature they selected to act after.

Liberty's Edge

Velkyn wrote:
It states you come out of delay and take your turn. Seems pretty clear it is immediately to me. The character is already primed for action. They get dropped into order directly after the creature they selected to act after.

You and I agree.

There are others who feel that process on page 238 for Initiative is repeated every time two creatures have the same initiative count, not just the beginning of combat roll that the GM then sets the initial initiative order.

Thus my request for a FAQ to provide guidance about how Delay and Ready actions affect initiative order from round to round.

So if please click the FAQ button!


The delaying character has already won the initiative roll. They don't need to check again.

Liberty's Edge

whew wrote:
The delaying character has already won the initiative roll. They don't need to check again.

Right. The question is where in the initiative order does the delaying character go? If one uses page 238, the delaying character would have the same initiative count in the next round, and could act BEFORE the creature that the character acted after in the previous round because the character has a higher initiative modifier.

I believe a delaying/readying character would have the same initiative count but would be after the creature in initiative order.

Other say this is not the case.

The Concordance

Gary Bush wrote:
whew wrote:
The delaying character has already won the initiative roll. They don't need to check again.

Right. The question is where in the initiative order does the delaying character go? If one uses page 238, the delaying character would have the same initiative count in the next round, and could act BEFORE the creature that the character acted after in the previous round because the character has a higher initiative modifier.

I believe a delaying/readying character would have the same initiative count but would be after the creature in initiative order.

Other say this is not the case.

As written, it operates as per page 238. If the writers had used “position in the current initiative order” rather than “initiative count” the Ready/Delay actions would be much simpler and more streamlined.

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