[New DM] Ruling on Feint Action and Multiple Rogue Sneak Attacks...

[NeonScorpion]

Hello, I want to start by saying I'm pretty new to pathfinder and TRPG's, I have been DM'ing for my group who are also new for about 7 months now.

In my group we now have two characters who can sneak attack, an Alchemist Vivisectionist, and a Gunslinger/rogue multiclass. We are all still learning some of the more unique things that can be done in a turn, such as combat maneuvers and special actions. Its been a slow and steady adoption as they graduated from simple move and hit combat. I am printing out a sheet with various actions and maneuvers possible during a turn to have on the opposite side of my DM screen for reference. My question is the players found the "Feint" action and immediately realized how useful that was for getting sneak attacks in combat, so lets say the Alchemist Feints and succeeds, does that mean the gunslinger also gets a sneak attack if her turn comes up within the round? (this is assuming all other prerequisites for the sneak attack to happen are met)
To put it simple, if you have 4 rogues and 1 of them successfully feints, do the other 3 get free sneak attacks as well as the original getting theirs on their turn? I do read it says "the enemy loses their Dex bonus to AC against YOUR next attack..." as in the Feinters, but I just want to be 100% sure before I say yes or no when it will inevitably come up. Any advice would be wonderful! Thanks!

[thorin001]

Only the person who successfully feinted gets the benefit. it is right there in black and white.

In general feinting is a waste of time; it means attacking every other round. This can be helped with feats. Usually it is better to just flank the enemy, especially when you have a pair of sneak attackers.

[Wonderstell]

Here's a breakdown of the relevant feinting rules.

Combat: Feint wrote:

Feinting is a standard action. To feint, make a Bluff skill check. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + your opponent’s base attack bonus + your opponent’s Wisdom modifier. If your opponent is trained in Sense Motive, the DC is instead equal to 10 + your opponent’s Sense Motive bonus, if higher. If successful, the next melee attack you make against the target does not allow him to use his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). This attack must be made on or before your next turn.

Feinting is done with the use of the Bluff skill, and denies your opponent's Dexterity bonus to AC against your next melee attack. This means that if you feint someone with a negative Dexterity modifier to AC, they wouldn't all of a sudden get higher AC.

And even if they normally lack a Dexterity bonus to AC, they would still qualify for all effects that trigger on loss of Dexterity to AC if they have been successfully feinted against. So if you're not able to flank an enemy, feinting is an option for getting Sneak Attack. But then who can you feint?

Combat: Feint wrote:

When feinting against a non-humanoid you take a –4 penalty. Against a creature of animal Intelligence (1 or 2), you take a –8 penalty. Against a creature lacking an Intelligence score, it’s impossible. Feinting in combat does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

You can feint Humanoids without penalty. Most of the standard races are humanoids, such as Elves, Orcs, Goblins and even Kobolds. Basically, if they have two legs, two arms and a head, they're probably a Humanoid. A notable exception to this generalization are those from other planes of existence, such as Demons and Devils.

A creature's Type is noted in the description of them, so you won't have to guess.

Everything that isn't a humanoid is inherently harder to Feint, and incur a -4 penalty to your Bluff check to Feint. Creatures with animal Intelligence incur a -8 penalty to your Bluff check, and mindless creatures can't be feinted.
This means that ghouls can't be feinted, but their Vampire master can be.

Bluff: Feint in Combat wrote:

Feinting in combat is a standard action.

Feinting is a Standard action, which means you can't (normally) both Feint and attack in the same turn. There are many feats which lower the action cost of Feinting, with the first being Improved Feint.

Improved Feint wrote:

You are skilled at fooling your opponents in combat.

Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise.

Benefit: You can make a Bluff check to feint in combat as a move action.

This feat would allow you to use your move action to Feint, and your Standard action to make one Attack against an enemy. It's still pretty limiting in most situations, and since Full Attacks become more and more valuable most people are drawn to Two-Weapon Feint or it's alternative Feinting Flurry.

Two-Weapon Feint wrote:

You use one weapon to distract your enemy while slipping another past his defenses.

Prerequisite: Dex 15, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Two-Weapon Fighting.

Benefit: While using Two-Weapon Fighting to make melee attacks, you can forgo your first primary-hand melee attack to make a Bluff check to feint an opponent.

Note that this still only qualifies your second attack for Sneak Attack, not all of your attacks during the Full Attack action. If you want multiple Sneak Attacks per round from Feinting, then you'd need either Greater Feint, the Improved Two-Weapon Feint, or Improved Feinting Flurry.

All three of these feats extend the loss of Dexterity to AC when you feint, making it possible to make several attacks that qualifies for Sneak Attack. But when can you actually feint someone?

Combat Feats: Ranged Feint wrote:

Normal: You can feint only with a melee weapon, and only against a creature you threaten with that weapon.

Without the Ranged Feint feat, you can only feint against enemies you threaten with a melee weapon. So normally, you'd need to be close enough to your opponent that you could make a Melee Attack against them. While the feat states that you can only feint with a melee weapon, this includes Natural Weapons such as Claws and Bite attacks.

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In Conclusion

Feinting is a feat-intensive playstyle that at the very minimum costs you three feats to be viable at higher levels, and is most used by classes that are already feat-starved. You'll need an additional feat if you want to feint at range, and even if you invest all these feats there are many enemies who are either immune to Feinting or have high Sense Motive modifiers (in addition to being non-humanoids), forcing you to invest gold and feats into your bluff skill to compete with them.

Feinting can be strong if you plan your build around it, but it's not worth just dipping into it. You'll have to go all in, and still live with the risk of facing an enemy you can't feint. Neither the Gunslinger/Rogue or the Alchemist have an easy way into the various Feinting feats, and both classes are a bit thin on feats.