What is "resonance", and how does it work? Not really getting it.
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Okay.
In PF2E, every character (or at least every PC) has a Resonance Pool. This is a pool of points equal to Level + Charisma Modifier.
You must spend a point of Resonance at the beginning of the day for every worn item (such as a magic cloak), but not wielded items like weapons, in order to attune and use the item for the day.
You must also spend a point of Resonance per use to use most (probably all) consumables such as potions or items with active uses such as wands (which no longer have charges), staffs, or a sword that shoots bolts of flame (though you'd only spend Resonance to shoot bolts o flame, not to stab people).
If you are out of Resonance and still want to use an item like a staff or wand you can roll a d20 to do so, and on a 10+ you succeed. The DC of this check goes up by one for each previous roll (ie: second roll is DC 11, third is DC 12, etc.) and if you critically fail (so fail the roll by 10 or more) you stop being able to make these rolls.
Alchemists apparently use Int instead of Cha to determine Resonance and get additional bonuses to their Resonance total.
Thank you khadgar567 and Deadmanwalking - this helped!
I'm not sure about my fighter having to have a magical resource, but we'll see how it works.
thanks again.
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This thread really helped me understand the concept, hadn’t bothered reading about it yet.
It’s a big change, and it’ll be interesting to see how it plays out. Less of an incentive to dump charisma, at least. Also, I like how this changes wands - they’re not consumables anymore! Any idea if Use Magid Device is still around, and if so, how does it interact with these rules? Wouldn’t be surprised if the resonance is more permissive regarding wand and scroll activation, now that there is a built in limit.
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Has it actually be stated by Paizo, that wands no longer have charges? I mean, it does make sense with Resonance, but I can't remember hearing/reading it officially somewhere. Does someone have a link by any chance?
Has it actually be stated by Paizo, that wands no longer have charges? I mean, it does make sense with Resonance, but I can't remember hearing/reading it officially somewhere. Does someone have a link by any chance?
I think it’s just speculation that people have started taking as a sure thing. I know I speculated about it without a source.
There are major stat boosts at 5th level (and higher), so stat-increasing items like belts of giant strength won't be required. I believe rings of resistance and cloaks of protection are also intended to be not needed. That's 4 standard items resonance won't have to cover
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Do all worn items cost 1 resonance, regardless of their effect? Or does the Crown Of Ultimate Awesomeness cost more resonance than the Ring Of Near Adequacy?
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An abomination unto nuggan which sucks all joy from life and leaves an empty shell in its place, the bringer of Gozur the Destructor?
(Ok, I kid, I kid)
Do all worn items cost 1 resonance, regardless of their effect? Or does the Crown Of Ultimate Awesomeness cost more resonance than the Ring Of Near Adequacy?
Good question - it would be nice to know.
I might have gotten this totally wrong, but it seems a bit unfair that a not-so-charismatic fighter can't get as much out his Icy Dragon Slaying sword as the "I'll-Charm-Your-Knickers-Off-M'Lady" bard.
On the positive side, Charisma wouldn't be such a dump stat ...
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Well, by the time you have an Icy Dragon Slaying Sword you would be higher level and have more resonance anyway. Even if you had Cha 10 and did nothing to boost it, at 10th level you would be able to wear magic armor, cloak, belt, gauntlets, boots, two rings and still invoke activated powers like Icy Blasts or whatever 3 times per day.
One of the devs said folks were concerned about running out of resonance but in playtesting its been enough. So I expect this is something folks will hit hard and see if its too restrictive or if there are ways to exploit as well.
Well, by the time you have an Icy Dragon Slaying Sword you would be higher level and have more resonance anyway. Even if you had Cha 10 and did nothing to boost it, at 10th level you would be able to wear magic armor, cloak, belt, gauntlets, boots, two rings and still invoke activated powers like Icy Blasts or whatever 3 times per day.
You're not wrong, it's just the idea that rubs me the wrong way - not being able to have a character without magical abilities. But, it might work, the play test will show.
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I'm not sure about my fighter having to have a magical resource, but we'll see how it works.
My general interpretation is that although your fighter character may be "mundane," they are bombarded constantly by the ambient magic of the world. (This only increases as you put yourself in your adventures in the way of magic, magical creatures, magical planes, etc.) And being able to use magic items requires that they tap into the ambient magic that is infused within themselves, which is determined by Charisma (at least per default), which was also the stat for Use Magic Device.
Do all worn items cost 1 resonance, regardless of their effect? Or does the Crown Of Ultimate Awesomeness cost more resonance than the Ring Of Near Adequacy?
I'd say the stronger items will cost more resonance to utilize to counteract their enhanced power, as well as the upscaling level modifiers and Charisma boosts. Even with a base 10 and adding +2 Charisma per 5 levels, 24 Resonance is a lot if you already have bare essential magic items for the endgame.
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In the alchemist playthrough they implied that some class features will require you to use resonance too because quick alchemy uses it. I'm just hoping there's enough resonance abilities for classes at low levels so I don't have to look at a full stat until I start collection magic items.
Also I like the concept of everyone having some innate magic since it'll help justify improbably abilities that mundanes have
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Here is my take on this: Resonance is what happens when multiple magic auras (what we see with a detect magic spell) overlap. The game already has this to some extent: only one ring on each hand, only one necklace/amulet hanging about the neck, etc.
What the game is changing is that your strength of personality is what allows you to use multiple magic items in conjunction without their auras screwing it up. This would include potions, buffs, and cures as these are magical auras as well.
As you gain in level, your experience with magic allows you to expand the number of fields that can work in resonance with each other, increasing the number of "slots" available to use.
Alchemists are special in that they have learned alchemical techniques of expanding resonance and thus use Intelligence as their prime stat instead of Charisma, representing force of personality.
Mechanically, it is actually quite simple, and if they don't use slots beyond how much you can wear, eventually multiple necklace/amulets and three or more rings could be possible.
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Has it actually be stated by Paizo, that wands no longer have charges? I mean, it does make sense with Resonance, but I can't remember hearing/reading it officially somewhere. Does someone have a link by any chance?
They specifically said they were getting rid of items having charges. So wands either lack charges or no longer exist. The simplification of not having to track separate pools for everything was stated as one reason that Resonance was a good thing.
Do all worn items cost 1 resonance, regardless of their effect? Or does the Crown Of Ultimate Awesomeness cost more resonance than the Ring Of Near Adequacy?
Nobody has ever mentioned items costing more than 1. That doesn't necessarily mean such items won't exist, but I actually doubt they will.
In the alchemist playthrough they implied that some class features will require you to use resonance too because quick alchemy uses it. I'm just hoping there's enough resonance abilities for classes at low levels so I don't have to look at a full stat until I start collection magic items.
They've specifically said that only item-related abilities would cost Resonance (so Alchemists have stuff that interacts with it and so would Occultists, but probably not fighters). But since drinking a healing potion/elixir seems to cost Resonance, everyone has a use for it.
You can still use magic armor, but you just don't get its magical properties without resonance so you won't need to use your resonance till later in levels.
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They specifically said they were getting rid of items having charges. So wands either lack charges or no longer exist. The simplification of not having to track separate pools for everything was stated as one reason that Resonance was a good thing.
As much as I dislike tying resonance to consumables like scrolls and potions, I do quite like this approach to wands. It simplifies them while also making them distinct from potions and scrolls.
While it hasn't strictly been confirmed that wands no longer have charges, it simply wouldn't make sense with the stated goal of resonance. The entire point of resonance is that you only track one number, rather than separate charges over multiple items. If wands had charges, now we're tracking charges plus resonance. On the other hand, people have come up with a lot of theoretical ways to abuse this system (ie, using a wand of summoned monster, then having the summoned creature use the wand to summon another monster) so maybe it will prove too abusive and we will in fact end up tracking both charges and resonance. It remains to be seen.
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Or there can be a simple resonance clause for summon spells, assuming they are still spells, that disables that cheese.
They specifically said they were getting rid of items having charges. So wands either lack charges or no longer exist. The simplification of not having to track separate pools for everything was stated as one reason that Resonance was a good thing.As much as I dislike tying resonance to consumables like scrolls and potions, I do quite like this approach to wands. It simplifies them while also making them distinct from potions and scrolls.
While it hasn't strictly been confirmed that wands no longer have charges, it simply wouldn't make sense with the stated goal of resonance. The entire point of resonance is that you only track one number, rather than separate charges over multiple items. If wands had charges, now we're tracking charges plus resonance. On the other hand, people have come up with a lot of theoretical ways to abuse this system (ie, using a wand of summoned monster, then having the summoned creature use the wand to summon another monster) so maybe it will prove too abusive and we will in fact end up tracking both charges and resonance. It remains to be seen.
I agree, its a bit weird for scrolls and potions(since their single use attribute implies the magic is inside of them) but it does justify how magical items can keep working without needing to be recharged
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Do all worn items cost 1 resonance, regardless of their effect? Or does the Crown Of Ultimate Awesomeness cost more resonance than the Ring Of Near Adequacy?
I would assume it's the same for everything, since Resonance is ultimately a replacement for "item slots". So now you can wear as many rings of near adequacy as you can fit on on your fingers, toes, hang from piercings, etc. up to your resonance limit.
After all a "belt of tumbling" and a "belt of physical perfection +6" effectively "cost" the same belt slot.
Can someone provide sources for the info in this thread? Or is it all speculation?
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Do all worn items cost 1 resonance, regardless of their effect? Or does the Crown Of Ultimate Awesomeness cost more resonance than the Ring Of Near Adequacy?I would assume it's the same for everything, since Resonance is ultimately a replacement for "item slots". So now you can wear as many rings of near adequacy as you can fit on on your fingers, toes, hang from piercings, etc. up to your resonance limit.
After all a "belt of tumbling" and a "belt of physical perfection +6" effectively "cost" the same belt slot.
They do, but you can only ever have one belt. With Resonance, such limits are practically gone. I think they've mentioned "Common Sense Limits" too (like, no wearing two pairs of boots), but still. Multiple Belts/Rings/Amulets certainly sound possible.
If such a thing is possible then it makes sense to make better items cost more Resonance, lest it be just as easy to get the Mandarin's Ten Rings of Power as it is to get ten rings that give +1 to a different skill check (just to make a silly example).
I fully expect more powerful items to cost more in order to keep Resonance actually relevant at higher levels (otherwise it's purpose as a limit is basically gone by the halfway point, or earlier if you have good Charisma). I also expect more powerful wands/staffs/etc to consume more than 1 Resonance per use, much like how Staves have different Charge costs for different abilities.
Also, eveyrthing costing the same resonance will mean you'll see even more useless items than in PF1. If I have an item that does X (costs 2 Resonance) and an item that does X+Y (Costs 4 resonance), then there's actual play there while you balance whether that +Y is worth the Resonance or you're better off getting maybe two items that do Z and A that each cost 1. If everything cost 1, then you just take X+Y and you're done with it.
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Can someone provide sources for the info in this thread? Or is it all speculation?The Glass Cannon podcast and the Alchemist Blog contain most of the info in my original summary. Bits are probably from elsewhere but I can't recall where precisely.
Thanks. I just saw there were more than 2 podcasts. Link to 3 & 4 for those that haven't heard them:
Still struggling to wrap my head around what exactly IS "resonance," in terms of the game's lore. I understand that it's the idea of being able to use one's force of personality (hence reliance on Charisma) to "command" magic items to do your bidding. However, its extension to potions, and the word "resonance" itself, suggests more the body's ability to "absorb" magic before the body/will decides to upchuck it because it has absorbed too much within a day. A "constitution score for magic," so to speak. But I cannot reconcile this with the "ability to command" concept: they seem like two different concepts.
My closest attempt is to think of the character as a tuning fork. When you strike it with magic, it creates a special effect (sound, or magic). Some individuals are naturally more attuned to the magical aether around them, or are more able to command IT to be attuned to THEM.
Would appreciate an explanation of resonance from Paizo that unites the terminology, the mechanics and the lore.
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The closest equivalent to Resonance in PF1 would be the Use Magic Device skill, including the consequences of rolling a 1 and failing as well as the cases where the use of this skill is unnecessary (for example, using a wand that has a spell from your spell list).
The farther that the Resonance concept gets from the PF1 rules for using magic items, the more difficulties would be presented in regard to the lore.
At least the introduction of 10th level spells does not create this problem, as there are very few people for whom the distinction between 9th and 10th level spells would even matter.
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I don't feel like Resonance is a major lore departure from PF1, both the Alchemist and Occultist Classes made reference to people's personal magic fields, for example, and something was certainly preventing you from wearing more than two magic rings.
Its a slightly larger departure for consumables, but only slightly since pretty much all items with active uses either have charges in PF1 or are only usable X times per day.
Any idea if Use Magid Device is still around, and if so, how does it interact with these rules? Wouldn’t be surprised if the resonance is more permissive regarding wand and scroll activation, now that there is a built in limit.I believe at one point they refered to "the equivalent of UMD", which implies that a skill by the name of 'Use Magic Device" no longer exists, but something with similar functionality does. Maybe.
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glass.
I'm guessing the Occultism skill handles former UMD functions as a trained-only ability.
Has it actually be stated by Paizo, that wands no longer have charges? I mean, it does make sense with Resonance, but I can't remember hearing/reading it officially somewhere. Does someone have a link by any chance?They specifically said they were getting rid of items having charges. So wands either lack charges or no longer exist. The simplification of not having to track separate pools for everything was stated as one reason that Resonance was a good thing.
Well, they might have meant everything BUT wands (and maybe staves). Using Resonance to "power" your flame tongue, cape of the mountebank and similar things. With the big 6 no longer being an issue, I'd expect more items with varied activation effects to be used. Tracking all those charges would be a pain in the neck.
Note that I don't say wands will have charges. I actually hope they don't. But until Paizo explicitly states they don't have charges, the possibility remains.
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What is Resonance? It's a terrible idea that I hope gets axed by the time PF2 is finalized.
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Resonance is what is going to make the Goblin threads look like a picnic when it hits the blog. Yeah it's been known, but so were goblins. Gob hate didn't really explode until the blog post.
Many people are /not/ fans. I've got to say I'm mostly one of them. Replacing x/day use items I can see, and actually kind of like. Replacing slots, maybe but I'm not thrilled that the amount of magic items you can wear is limited by level and charisma. But once you get into requiring it for a scroll or a potion, that's just painfully horrible in my mind. Those things already have a cost in the money and time to make them. And frankly I almost never see potions or scrolls being used by PCs as it is. The main use of potions seems to be to buff enemies with something that wont give the PCs treasure "That jerk just drank our treasure!" While scrolls are sometimes used to cast a spell that the caster isn't high enough level for. This will just make them all immediately tossed into the sell pile.
There has been attempts to reassure us that nobody really runs out of resonance, in which case, what's it for then? I'm sure this is going to be one of the areas that gets the most scrutiny from my group for the playtest, and I have a hard time seeing how we'll respond positively to it.
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I still feel like Resonance is a much better mechanic than "item slots". All the concerns are about how it works with consumables, wands, and the like.
But to know whether "resonance is fine" or "resonance is not" before we know how potions work (they aren't spells in a can anymore) or how scrolls/wands work (spellcasting is different now, or so says the alchemist blog).
I actually really like the idea of resonance... for everything except scrolls and potions. That just seems completely wrong. But I guess we'll see...
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I like resonance in general, but I think potions need to be an exception because they're something you can benefit from even if you're dying or unconscious. Our party have in the past tricked a PC into drinking a potion. That doesn't seem thematically congruent with a need to actively spend resonance to use potions.
I feel like potions are already sufficiently limited by actions (draw-drink) and inventory space. Assuming they follow Starfinder's lead, a potion would be Light (0.1) bulk. With light load before becoming encumbered presumably being limited to half your Strength score like Starfinder, somewhat more with a backpack, you actually can't carry a million potions after accounting for your armor, weapons and so on. Even if you have a bag of holding, you still have to dig in the bag to find a potion before you can then draw and drink it.
Potions don't need to be limited by resonance on top of all that. Besides, what @sadie said above - it has actually come up several times in games I've run where the party managed to slip someone a potion. That would be harder to justify if it costs resonance.
What is Resonance? It's a terrible idea that I hope gets axed by the time PF2 is finalized.
I believe we call this "begging the question."
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So, is the purpose of resonance to make 2e even more martial unfriendly? Unless it's so radically different from 3.0/3.5/PF1 as to be totally unrecognizable (i.e., totally redesigned from the ground up), then martials will still be more gear-reliant than casters. Forcing them to burn a limited resource to use items just adds insult to injury.
So, is the purpose of resonance to make 2e even more martial unfriendly? Unless it's so radically different from 3.0/3.5/PF1 as to be totally unrecognizable (i.e., totally redesigned from the ground up), then martials will still be more gear-reliant than casters. Forcing them to burn a limited resource to use items just adds insult to injury.
I'm not sure if Martials are more gear dependent inherently, at least as far as resonance is concerned. We know that weapons and shields (things you wield) don't require resonance, and that "big six" items like cloaks for your saves, rings/amulets for your AC, and belts/headbands for your stats don't exist anymore.
So why would a martial need more in the way of resonance than someone who is expected to use a wand? We also know a fighter doesn't need to chug a potion to attack a flying creature in melee (there's a fighter feat that does this for you) and it might be the case that "potions of fly/enlarge person" and other martial staples no longer exist.
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So, is the purpose of resonance to make 2e even more martial unfriendly? Unless it's so radically different from 3.0/3.5/PF1 as to be totally unrecognizable (i.e., totally redesigned from the ground up), then martials will still be more gear-reliant than casters. Forcing them to burn a limited resource to use items just adds insult to injury.I'm not sure if Martials are more gear dependent inherently, at least as far as resonance is concerned. We know that weapons and shields (things you wield) don't require resonance, and that "big six" items like cloaks for your saves, rings/amulets for your AC, and belts/headbands for your stats don't exist anymore.
So why would a martial need more in the way of resonance than someone who is expected to use a wand? We also know a fighter doesn't need to chug a potion to attack a flying creature in melee (there's a fighter feat that does this for you) and it might be the case that "potions of fly/enlarge person" and other martial staples no longer exist.
If feats can do everything why even have magic items or spells? I'm pretty sure that feats might make you not 'need' an item. But if you have to take the feat, then why have a choice at all? I expect items will still be needed for most tasks that you don't focus your character around, and thus just as important.
This does seem to imply that a character that wants to be 'batman' with a large back of tricks,potions,scrolls and other 'I have a tool for this' is going to have a very hard time.
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I still feel like Resonance is a much better mechanic than "item slots".
I think 'item slots' were just a simple handed way to keep you from wearing 3 hats and 5 cloaks at the same time.
Outside of the ring limit I never really saw them as a big deal, but there was a time when drinking more than a couple of potions would cause a reaction (1st ed). I'm unsure why you think one is better than the other really. I kind of understood how it was meant to work with existing pathfinder and automatic bonus progression - but it felt like a kludge to compensate for the base system, when you are doing a redesign I don't understand why it's needed, as the 'base system' can assume the stat bonus and no longer should require you to 'attune' your weapons.