So, I couldn't help but notice that Damiel the half-elf iconic alchemist from what we are now calling Pathfinder 1st edition got downsized into a goblin in 2.0 the way Devis the half-elf iconic bard from Dungeons & Dragons 3.0 was replaced with Gimble the gnome in 3.5.
I don't have much to say about this except that I have difficulty seeing goblins (or kobolds, or mites, or those little wads of lard you sometimes find in jars of baked beans) reaching much further than 10th level in most game worlds I've ever heard of, and that hobgoblins seem like they could, realistically, go further. I do think I understand the monetization aspect of the idea, but that's really its own thread.
Did anyone actually know the 1st edition alchemist's name before he got the axe? Or that there even was an iconic for the class? Did you know there was an alchemist class? Is it a half-elf thing, do you think? A letter 'D' thing? Why not replace Amiri, or Merisiel? Do you think the goblin depicted in the new art is actually still Damiel and that what we're seeing is the result of a batch of polyjuice potion that got contaminated by goblin DNA? Those little buggers are into everything. Or do you think that alchemists all shop at the same clothing store regardless of big and tall, or petite status?
Discuss.
The alchemist has been upgraded to CRB2 core class like the goblin for ancestry. So Damiel indeed got Gimbled to rep the new ways of things.
Damiel wasn't exactly the most exciting iconic tbh. Will hardly notice.
Zadim hype!
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Will hardly notice.
... But goblins have better stealth modifiers.
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I’ve been joking that the new iconic is still Damiel, he just drank something he shouldn’t have and got permanently polymorphed.
Omg I got ninja'd.. >.<
So Damiel indeed got Gimbled to rep the new ways of things.
But what about the amusing racism of the 'good old days'?
I’ve been joking that the new iconic is still Damiel, he just drank something he shouldn’t have and got permanently polymorphed.
Do you think that's what happened with Devis and Gimble too!?
It's curious how you never see the replacements in the same art panel together with the person they replaced. Makes you wonder.
Damiel wasn't exactly the most exciting iconic tbh. Will hardly notice.He and Amiri are top of my list for "not yet got to play and want to", though it would need a darker tone than anything I have a plausible prospect of playing in soon for me really to get into.
mmmmm Waifu Amiri! Shame she is so optimized (compared to the others) that it makes her insanely strong in an iconic-only group. 18 Str, big damage 2h weapon, get Weapon Focus and Power attack as early as possible, then vital strike. Only gimmick is having to tahe Exotic prof. for that thing, but she sure as well can overcome the size penalty.
What's her DPT at like level 3? Likely 10x that of valeros.
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Damiel is full elf, by the way, not half.
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That just makes him half elf and half elf.
By the playtest artwork I see that goblins aren't adorable, murderous, melon-headed toddlers anymore, but more like stingy preteens.
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I’ve been joking that the new iconic is still Damiel, he just drank something he shouldn’t have and got permanently polymorphed.
Heh...this is what it should be. His new name should be...
Leimad...the mad goblin alchemist.
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...Heh.
Le "I'm Mad"
IIRC, the magus got retconned back in the old days into the Magus Iconic (he used to be the multiclass iconic). I wonder if Damiel will get the same thing in a later book.
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"Wuyrdz? Hu nids reedin wen u gotz FIRE??!"
Yeah, how does the new guy even know what's in the bottles he's carrying around on him? It's not like he's going to label them.
And his book of formulas? Is is just a lot of colorful crayon drawings showing how one goes about bottling the right toads?
It seems to me hobgoblins would make a better/more mechanically realistic choice than goblins for a core race. Goblins are of course the better/more merchandisable race, but more so I think when they are depicted as big-headed toddlers rather than lanky pre-teens who now look like they are at that age where they about to start resenting their player.
IIRC, the magus got retconned back in the old days into the Magus Iconic (he used to be the multiclass iconic). I wonder if Damiel will get the same thing in a later book.
Seltyiel's case was more of a lateral move. He didn't actually replace anyone. He was already a sword and sorcery sort being the iconic eldritch knight, the Core book prestige class that the magus is meant to be another flavor of, but attainable at first level without all that pesky waiting. Patience is a vice I tell you.
While I like the spell combat feature on the magus, I don't like all the limits (less-versatile spell list; no really high-level spells; why not a big honking mace or two-handed weapon?, etc...). On the whole, most of the sword- or axe-swinging (or gun-slinging) wizards I make couldn't be magi, and end up being eldritch knights (or more usually somewhere on their way toward getting the prestige class at 7+ level). There are just a lot more customization options--perhaps the most of any prestige class, and I really really hope they include some version of it in 2.0.
Rip in pieces, Damiel. You will be hit. (T-T)7
Wasn't the Iconic Warpreist also a half-orc? Or was he full orc? Hmm I better go reread my Iconic blogs.
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Wasn't the Iconic Warpreist also a half-orc? Or was he full orc? Hmm I better go reread my Iconic blogs.
The iconic warpriest and the iconic inquisitor are both half-orcs.
But note that neither of those classes are in the core rulebook, so neither of them are core iconics.
Has anyone here ever been to Falcon's Hollow? You know town of 1,200; 94% human, and 1% half-elf.... And then every other NPC you meet is a half-elf?
Maybe they'll make half-orcs a Core race this time along with goblins. Go Green! ;)
On the plus side, I like the new more competent look. Assuming the goblin on the cover has a typical physique for his species, Valeros will no long be able to fend off a charging goblin merely by placing one gauntleted hand on the creature's huge forehead.
It looks like they will look more like traditional goblins, and not shaved kobold refugees from the beer and pretzels Kobolds Ate My Baby! RPG. Thank King Torg....
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By the playtest artwork I see that goblins aren't adorable, murderous, melon-headed toddlers anymore, but more like stingy preteens.
But ... but ... we like those adorable, murderous, football-headed pyromaniacal toddlers ...
All the wronged (or otherwise neglected) Iconics need to get together and form a grudge party. Devis the Bard, Damiel the Alchemist, Seltyiel the
Eldritch KnightMagus, some of those not-really-Iconics from the 3.0 PHB, like Tordek and Naull and Kerwyn.
Who is that Elf Fighter with the golden helmet that appears in the beginner box? Seems to be another one of those "lost" iconics.
If I remember correctly, that guy is Kiramor, an Elf Ranger 4/Rogue 2 that is the example of how to use the NPC building rules in the CRB.Who is that Elf Fighter with the golden helmet that appears in the beginner box? Seems to be another one of those "lost" iconics.All the wronged (or otherwise neglected) Iconics need to get together and form a grudge party. Devis the Bard, Damiel the Alchemist, Seltyiel the
Eldritch KnightMagus, some of those not-really-Iconics from the 3.0 PHB, like Tordek and Naull and Kerwyn.
Hopefully he serves the same function in Pathfinder II.
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All the wronged (or otherwise neglected) Iconics need to get together and form a grudge party. Devis the Bard, Damiel the Alchemist, Seltyiel theEldritch KnightMagus, some of those not-really-Iconics from the 3.0 PHB, like Tordek and Naull and Kerwyn.
I actually play a wronged iconic.
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I actually play a wronged iconic.
Those characters from the Dungeon covers were evocative as all heck, particularly that tiefling barbarian, and I'd love to have seen Iconic style write-ups of them.
Actually the dwarf (featured in Savage Tide) was the iconic Dungeon barbarian. The tiefling was the iconic fighter. They do love their two-weapon fighters over there at Paizo.
Group picture photobombed by Demogorgon.
The Dungeon Iconics got a bit of discussion over here on this thread between all the game table digressions.
Male Dwarf Barbarian
Male Drow Bard
Female Human Cleric of Wee Jas (Tyralandi Scrimm)
Female Elf Druid with velociraptor companion
Female Tiefling Fighter
Male Human Monk
Male Human Paladin (Abelard)
Female Human Ranger with big cat (mountain lion?) companion
Male Half-Elf Rogue (Taan... maybe.)
Male Human Sorcerer
Female Human Wizard with quasit familiar